Shopsmith Forums

Jsburger,

That makes sense. I'll have to look tonight to see if everything is feasible.

Dusty,

The original inquiry was simple and has grown more complex. The issue that was immediately identified is that the 510 table doesn't tilt 90 degrees in both directions (only 90 degrees for overhead use, otherwise 45 degrees in the opposite direction). Since that time, various suggestions have been made to solve the issue of having a flat table so the headstock can come-up from underneath. Hopefully this clears up any confusion. The original question is resolved, but the table/workspace situation is still outstanding.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, it seems that the base assemblies would either not be detachable to allow for tilt or they would not be locked down. Unless I am mistaken, one has a hinge and the other does not (lock-down only).

Finally figured out the part number for the double-sided table posts (Tie Bar Tubes) used in the 520 and Mark 7. The cost is $155 and they can be ordered.

Here's the procedure I plan to follow (after I gather the funds to order the new posts):

Please note that for anyone reading this who is not familiar with the original assembly of the ShopSmith, I highly recommend you read the manual, including all full-detailed instructions, and watch the many videos that are available online prior to attempting.

1. Slide off Headstock and carriage. (I also have an accessory shelf which I will be uninstalling and moving to the opposite side, but this won't apply to all users)

2. (Without headstock on the machine) Flip the frame and swap the two legs (this is to allow the casters to be accessible from the new working side).

3. Flip frame right-side-up and install both the Headstock and carriage in the opposite direction (carriage will remain to the right of the headstock).

4. Remove table and knock out the Tie Bar Tube pins from the inside out.

5. Install the new double sided (threads on both sides) Tie Bar Tubes.

Then I should be good to go. I give-up over-table routing, shaping and the drill press, but gain under-table capabilities for all but the drill press.

Please let me know if you notice anything awry with my procedure.

robinson46176 wrote:Everybody seems to be overlooking the obvious... Acquire (inexpensively) an old Mark VII table and carriage and just use them in a normal manner.
Miter gauge should be fine but you will need the Mark VII fence.

I should have been clearer but I was in a bit of a rush at the time...
I tend to forget that not that many folks are that familiar with the old Mark VII. On it the table operates at full 90 degrees either direction... It was designed to do exactly what I am understanding that you want to do. It was designed to do routing and shaping from under the table when tipped up to the left end. It tipped both ways and the motor was reversible.

Just FYI, as I understand what I have read over the years the old Shopsmith company didn't go belly-up because the Mark VII had a couple of problems (the plastic speed cam and the plastic rack gear). It went belly up because a fine machine had two smallish problems and they totally failed to recognize those two problems and worse yet they totally failed to upgrade the new machines they were making and failed to immediately make good on the machines they had sold.
Fortunately the current Shopsmith has long had a better general attitude toward customer service. If you commonly fail at customer service you might as well lock the door and go home...


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JazzLuthier wrote:Jsburger,

That makes sense. I'll have to look tonight to see if everything is feasible.

Dusty,

The original inquiry was simple and has grown more complex. The issue that was immediately identified is that the 510 table doesn't tilt 90 degrees in both directions (only 90 degrees for overhead use, otherwise 45 degrees in the opposite direction). Since that time, various suggestions have been made to solve the issue of having a flat table so the headstock can come-up from underneath. Hopefully this clears up any confusion. The original question is resolved, but the table/workspace situation is still outstanding.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, it seems that the base assemblies would either not be detachable to allow for tilt or they would not be locked down. Unless I am mistaken, one has a hinge and the other does not (lock-down only).

They would lock down in the horizontal position (both ends) by installing the pivot pins. When you want to tilt, you pull a pivot pin.

JPG wrote:Reversing the carriage is the same as reversing the rack teeth. Not sure if the controls are movable on a 510.

My comments above were relative to a Mark 5, 500.

The MS has not been willing to sell a set of M7 table tubes only in the past.

The tilt lock is relocatable to the other end of the trunion on a 510.

I went and looked at the parts diagrams/lists and found something interesting. Looking at the table here http://www.shopsmith.com/service/mark/index.htm they list the same main table parts list and diagram for both the MK V and MK 7. You can buy the tie bar and table tubes as an assembly but there is only one part number. Item 163 P/N 514344. We all know that is not right since the MK V and MK 7 table tubes are different. My assumption is that the part number is for the MK V table tubes. Granted the parts list does say "for 520, 510, 505". Is not a MK 7 also a 520? Or should it be a 720? I believe they should add to the list "Not for MK 7". A nit pick maybe but for a MK 7 owner not familiar with the differences it is a problem.

If you look farther down the chart at the Bench & Base line the MK 7 is lined off from the parts list/diagram links. That tells me you can not buy the double tilt bases separately.

dusty wrote:

JazzLuthier wrote:Jsburger,

If I understand your suggestion correctly, it seems that the base assemblies would either not be detachable to allow for tilt or they would not be locked down. Unless I am mistaken, one has a hinge and the other does not (lock-down only).

Dusty said:
They would lock down in the horizontal position (both ends) by installing the pivot pins. When you want to tilt, you pull a pivot pin.

We had a number of discussions about this a few years ago. Unfortunately I don't have enough functioning brain cells left to recall all of them or to be able to find them.
I do recall me deciding that I could just replace the head-rest end with another standard "pivot" end (hinge) just facing toward the right pivot end and replace both pivot pins with 2 new 3/4" tractor hitch pins from a farm store secured with a simple hair-pin to keep one from vibrating out. Those pins have an oval ring on one end and a small hole for a pin at the other. You would only ever pull one pin at a time unless you were breaking it down for some reason.



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I have to admit to not having read all of these posts, too many other things on my mind to start trying to picture and figure all this out.

The first thing that came to my mind is why?

The stock shopsmith is not so much of a router to start with, slow and the list of minuses goes on. Yes it can work but I think you are better off with a real router. Without even pricing around they have one of my favorite routers over at Amazon for $159 that gives you both a fixed and plunge base and a lot of great features.

https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-KM12VC-V ... B0002ZZWX8

If that is still to expensive then the router with fixed base sells in the $120 range.

If you already have a router then the solution is to make a router table. Space an issue? Have it mount on your shopsmith. That is pretty easy do it yourself project, or you can buy most of it then adapt. It would be a lot less work then swapping stuff around and loosing some functions on the shopsmith.

I can understand if this is just one of those things you want to do because it would be cool but if we are being practical here there are other ways to get to a table router.

Ed

BTW the manual for the double-tilt lists a part No. 522797 Tie Bar Posts and a hardware kit with I'm guess the needed pins 522838 but they don't show up on the web site. Perhaps a call would have better results.

Ed

dusty wrote:

JazzLuthier wrote:Jsburger,

That makes sense. I'll have to look tonight to see if everything is feasible.

Dusty,

The original inquiry was simple and has grown more complex. The issue that was immediately identified is that the 510 table doesn't tilt 90 degrees in both directions (only 90 degrees for overhead use, otherwise 45 degrees in the opposite direction). Since that time, various suggestions have been made to solve the issue of having a flat table so the headstock can come-up from underneath. Hopefully this clears up any confusion. The original question is resolved, but the table/workspace situation is still outstanding.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, it seems that the base assemblies would either not be detachable to allow for tilt or they would not be locked down. Unless I am mistaken, one has a hinge and the other does not (lock-down only).

They would lock down in the horizontal position (both ends) by installing the pivot pins. When you want to tilt, you pull a pivot pin.

What kind of pin did you replace the OEM pin with? There is no easy way to remove the OEM pin in daily service. A military quick release pin with a plunger on the handle end and retractable balls on the other end would be great. We called them PIP pins in the Air Force as I am sure you know.

The table issue still exists but is doable.

reible wrote:I have to admit to not having read all of these posts, too many other things on my mind to start trying to picture and figure all this out.

The first thing that came to my mind is why?

The stock shopsmith is not so much of a router to start with, slow and the list of minuses goes on. Yes it can work but I think you are better off with a real router. Without even pricing around they have one of my favorite routers over at Amazon for $159 that gives you both a fixed and plunge base and a lot of great features.

https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-KM12VC-V ... B0002ZZWX8

If that is still to expensive then the router with fixed base sells in the $120 range.

If you already have a router then the solution is to make a router table. Space an issue? Have it mount on your shopsmith. That is pretty easy do it yourself project, or you can buy most of it then adapt. It would be a lot less work then swapping stuff around and loosing some functions on the shopsmith.

I can understand if this is just one of those things you want to do because it would be cool but if we are being practical here there are other ways to get to a table router.

Ed

I believe that the OP's primes was would it work because he didn't have/want to spend the money for other options. Then of course as we do it blossomed.