Shopsmith Forums

First of all, we as a nation must not allow this to happen anymore. Those that we put in office must be tasked to bring the labor force back from where we have recently sent it (mostly Asia and India).

We must start over in the educational system putting out students who can meet the world head-on and be prepared to compete in the scientific and engineering fields. Where we used to be #1 we are now #14 with China, India and most of the rest of Asia leading the pack.

If you doubt me, go to any major campus and look around. Look in the labs, the libraries, the study areas and the research areas. You will see them over run by Oriental and Asian and Indian students. Where are all the Caucasians? At a basketball game or a party at one of the nearby sports bars.

Go to the employment agencies, the unemployment claim areas and where ever you might expect to find people who are looking for work. You won't find many (if any) Arians, Orientals or Indians. They are all either working in the commercial science labs, design centers or in the field OR they have gone back to their homeland to take over another of our "jobs gone overseas".

Tell me I am all wrong and give me a couple of examples. I would absolutely love to hear that what I am saying is totally incorrect. I don't think that will happen.

I have some 8 years experience working in the development labs of one of our major defense contractors. I worked with engineers who, if they could not find a computer program to do it, could not solve for voltage drops around a simple series/parallel circuit. I worked with acoustic engineers who could not calculate by hand a prediction for what the acoustic power output was going to be. There are many more examples. Who solved those problems for them? Easy, the older generation that was brought up with a slide rule - we the engineering technicians.

I fault to change this after I became an engineering manager but I failed miserably. I was not able to provide a cost trade off analysis that showed that the company would be better off by promoting the technicians (based on performance) and hiring new engineers into entry level positions rather than positioning them based on grade point.

I read the reports written by these engineers. Many hardly had the ability to write correct simple sentences. Capitalization, spelling and punctuation was at best sixth grade level. I have been removed from the working world for nearly ten years now but I doubt that it has gotten much better.

Again, I hope someone can tell me that I am "all wet".

We need our teachers worse than ever but we need them to be proficient from the get go.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Since we got this thread off subject and on to the subject of schools and training let me say this. I think the day is quickly approaching that technical trading (shop classes) will return.

I'm of the opinion that to enter the corporate world which once as a terrific idea is now a really bad idea. I think students that will be in the best shape in future will be those that have a profession that will allow them to be on their own.

Look at your average college student most leave college with $100,000 in student loans and 5 years out of their lives. Look at your average tech school grad, they have been earning excellent money doing those five years and they don't have a student loan.

Add the loan and 5 years lost wages and you quickly realize that a college grad is going to have to go for a long time to break even if they ever do. I know many tech school grads that are out pacing many college grad in pay.

As our economy continues to crumble I believe those that can make something with their hands are going to be huge demand and those that were taught to shuffle papers and look busy ( I were one) are going to be trouble.

Also have you noticed how the focus has shifted from "save our trees" to "trees are a renewable resource". We are seeing the death of plastic injection molded furniture and the return of real wood furniture. We are seeing an end of the chemically impregnated prebuilt home and the return of stick built.

Thud! I just fell off my soap box so I will be quiet now.

Boy, we dragged this one off of the road and beat it to a bloody pulp.
I agree Ed. Just this morning they were talking to a young couple (NBC) that I believe had 3 kids and were both unemployed. He had an MBA and she a BA. They also had over $250,000 in student loans. They may come out yet but right now the kid carrying the trash out at McDonalds is a jump ahead of them...
Just what kind of degree is required to be unemployed?

Ed in Tampa wrote:Since we got this thread off subject and on to the subject of schools and training let me say this. I think the day is quickly approaching that technical trading (shop classes) will return.

I'm of the opinion that to enter the corporate world which once as a terrific idea is now a really bad idea. I think students that will be in the best shape in future will be those that have a profession that will allow them to be on their own.

Look at your average college student most leave college with $100,000 in student loans and 5 years out of their lives. Look at your average tech school grad, they have been earning excellent money doing those five years and they don't have a student loan.

Add the loan and 5 years lost wages and you quickly realize that a college grad is going to have to go for a long time to break even if they ever do. I know many tech school grads that are out pacing many college grad in pay.

As our economy continues to crumble I believe those that can make something with their hands are going to be huge demand and those that were taught to shuffle papers and look busy ( I were one) are going to be trouble.

Also have you noticed how the focus has shifted from "save our trees" to "trees are a renewable resource". We are seeing the death of plastic injection molded furniture and the return of real wood furniture. We are seeing an end of the chemically impregnated prebuilt home and the return of stick built.

Thud! I just fell off my soap box so I will be quiet now.

I do agree with this post. Now if we can only get the kids coming up now to get their noses out of Game Boy, Play Station and the rest of the brain killers and do some cutting with Grampa''s tools things will get better. Lee

Since we have shot so far from the trunk, I will add this tidbit:

We need more folks reading John Rosemond (Phychiatrists and Parents and 'Educators').

I really like his term for BS! Phycobabble! (or however he spells it)