Pleasantly Surprised By Table Saw Function

[edflorence]

The newest 500 rip fence upgrade is essentially a short 510 fence with separate front and rear clamps. IIUC it is almost identical to the bandsaw fence upgrade. If so they all have the 4 screw fence rail/head mount.

Like Dusty I would be suspicious of whatever the head/rail interface is including the screws.

I do not think anything would be 'lost' by complete disassembly and close examination. The 'loose' screw may be partially stripped(as well as the other three).

FWIW, I am less than thrilled with the band saw fence upgrade, and have modified it to make it easier to use.

Hi JPG;

right on all counts...it is the fence with separate front and rear clamps, very much like the bandsaw fence. I would be interested in hearing what mods you made to the bandsaw fence...

[jimthej]

I used that fence for a time. I ended up putting a heli-coil in each of the screw holes. The extrusion is very thin there and strips easily. I wish there was room for a tapping plate there.

Right...this is the newest 500 fence we are talking about...it is very similar to the new bandsaw fence. I suspect that your experience with the stripped holes is what is going on with the loose socket head screw in my fence. The stripped out hole allows just a bit of motion between the head and the fence and that is what is causing the misalignment. Did the heli-coils work for you? and are you still using this fence? Thanks for your input...

They worked pretty well. After about 6 months I got some $ and did the 520 upgrade. Just checked it and it still feels solid. Been hanging in the shop foe a couple of years. Need to sell some stuff.

[JPG]

The newest 500 rip fence upgrade is essentially a short 510 fence with separate front and rear clamps. IIUC it is almost identical to the bandsaw fence upgrade. If so they all have the 4 screw fence rail/head mount.

Like Dusty I would be suspicious of whatever the head/rail interface is including the screws.

I do not think anything would be 'lost' by complete disassembly and close examination. The 'loose' screw may be partially stripped(as well as the other three).

FWIW, I am less than thrilled with the band saw fence upgrade, and have modified it to make it easier to use.

Hi JPG;

right on all counts...it is the fence with separate front and rear clamps, very much like the bandsaw fence. I would be interested in hearing what mods you made to the bandsaw fence...

So as to prevent you thinking I am ignoring the question, I will briefly describe the changes. From looking at the online pdf instructions for the 500 fence, it appears the parts are identical. I am not sure if my recollection is accurate re what I started with, so some of what follows may not actually be changed. I will post pix later if needed(I do not have time to do so now).

The front clamp/handle/screw is a very sloppy fit in the 'head' bore. That allows the actual clamping part to wobble(mostly vertically). The spring IIRC was tending to bind/get caught in the inside end of the screw bore. The nut(the pdf calls it both(???) a special shaped hex and square nut). The clamp 'nest' for that nut is hex shaped on the outer side, but square shaped in the inner side. That all leads me to think the standard hex nut that my bandsaw fence has is not the original or a poor substitute. That inner shape makes the nut sloppy in the 'nest'.

All that leads up to binding of the spring, and unreliable tightening of the front clamp.

I added a flat 'shim' between the spring and the inside end of the bore in the 'head'. The hole in the 'shim' is a snug fit to the clamping screw. It also is a snug fit to the channel in the bottom of the fence. That accomplishes two things. It reduces the slop in that end of the screw, and eliminates the spring from snagging on the bore etc.

I am not sure if I replaced the spring, since the 'current' spring is fairly weak(works well). I may have replaced it to reduce the amount of torque required the tighten the clamp.

The hex nut was filed on two opposing flats to reduce the distance between them(another reason to be suspicious of the nuts genealogy). The std nut was not aligning with the screw/bore and both dragged in the channel and was proud of the clamp.(that causes the sliding clamp to ride high/bind)

The rear clamp had a screw inserted into the empty threads of the coupling that provided adjustment of the rear clamp. The screw serves as a 'jam' screw.

I am not satisfied with the lack of a washer or interface between the coupling nut and the surface of the clamp itself.

I intend to attempt to make a 'special shaped' nut now that I realize the need for it. The description of the nut as both hex and square revealed to me the reason for the shape of the 'nest' which was not so obvious initially. I only now have read the pdf and subsequently took a close look at the 'nest'.

I do not have a 500 version and am curious at the parts you have.

There is a lot of conjecture above re what the band saw fence design was/should be.

[edflorence]

Hi JPG and jimthej;

thanks for the detailed responses. I am going to try some of the suggestions in the next few days and will report back. Probably won't get much shop time today as the better half has other plans for ending the old year and greeting the new.

Happy New Year!

[reible]

I know this is a little late but for what it is worth.

Some of the fences had a casting area near where the front mounting happens and it some cases the casting caused a "bump" which caused the actual mounting area to become one or the other side and the "bump". Might be worth looking at. I believe this would have been on the pre-1973 models.

When I got my "new fence" for the 500 I managed to strip the adjusting screws on my very first attempt to get it square. I was pretty upset with my self thinking that I was going to have to either buy a new part of fix the problem. I called shopsmith to explain what happened and since it was like only weeks old they just sent me a new one and I returned the stripped one. They did not indicate if they were having problems with the arrangement and it was years before we had a forum to discuss such things.

Since that happened I have been very careful to tread lightly with those screws but I can also say that I've not seen any issues as was described with alignment problems, either with the old or new fences.

Ed

[johnmccrossen]

Hello, I also had to repair some stripped holes my model 500 upgrade fence. I made an installed an insert plate per my old post #30200. Still working fine. John McCrossen

Edit: I still don't know how insert correctly yet.

[JPG]

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... f=9&t=2953

Pertinent post on page 2. #30200

[keakap]

[I have made up two blocks that bridge the bench tubes and have a hole to accept a threaded rod (see attached image for clarification). I use the threaded rod to lend stability to the table.

I also use it as a micro-adjuster, along with a Wixey Angle Gauge, when tilting the table to a critical setting.
[ATTACH]14354[/ATTACH].

Very cool! And as usual, clever, simple, efficient and eminently useable!

And it inspired another idea- I have 2 or 3 SS devices (notably a Speed Reducer, no longer needed) that span way tubes and lock like a pit bull. Maybe if I drag one of 'em out and see how easy to attach that threaded rod...

[edflorence]

When I got my "new fence" for the 500 I managed to strip the adjusting screws on my very first attempt to get it square. I was pretty upset with my self thinking that I was going to have to either buy a new part of fix the problem. I called shopsmith to explain what happened and since it was like only weeks old they just sent me a new one and I returned the stripped one. They did not indicate if they were having problems with the arrangement and it was years before we had a forum to discuss such things.

Since that happened I have been very careful to tread lightly with those screws but I can also say that I've not seen any issues as was described with alignment problems, either with the old or new fences.

Ed

Well, I haven't stripped all four of the socket head screws, but one is definitely stripped...I found fine little metal shavings under the head of the loose screw. I have ordered a heli-coil repair kit for the 10-24 screws and I think I will go ahead and reline all of them. I am a little suspect that one loose screw by itself could be enough to cause the problem. I have had the fence for years and it is only since the last time I adjusted it that I have really noticed that it won't stay in alignment, so perhaps I did "over tighten" the screws.

Thanks to everyone for all the valuable input. The forum did a great job of suggesting the likely cause of the problem and the likely fix.

[JPG]

The newest 500 rip fence upgrade is essentially a short 510 fence with separate front and rear clamps. IIUC it is almost identical to the bandsaw fence upgrade. If so they all have the 4 screw fence rail/head mount.

Like Dusty I would be suspicious of whatever the head/rail interface is including the screws.

I do not think anything would be 'lost' by complete disassembly and close examination. The 'loose' screw may be partially stripped(as well as the other three).

FWIW, I am less than thrilled with the band saw fence upgrade, and have modified it to make it easier to use.

Hi JPG;

right on all counts...it is the fence with separate front and rear clamps, very much like the bandsaw fence. I would be interested in hearing what mods you made to the bandsaw fence...

So as to prevent you thinking I am ignoring the question, I will briefly describe the changes. From looking at the online pdf instructions for the 500 fence, it appears the parts are identical. I am not sure if my recollection is accurate re what I started with, so some of what follows may not actually be changed. I will post pix later if needed(I do not have time to do so now).

The front clamp/handle/screw is a very sloppy fit in the 'head' bore. That allows the actual clamping part to wobble(mostly vertically). The spring IIRC was tending to bind/get caught in the inside end of the screw bore. The nut(the pdf calls it both(???) a special shaped hex and square nut). The clamp 'nest' for that nut is hex shaped on the outer side, but square shaped in the inner side. That all leads me to think the standard hex nut that my bandsaw fence has is not the original or a poor substitute. That inner shape makes the nut sloppy in the 'nest'.

All that leads up to binding of the spring, and unreliable tightening of the front clamp.

I added a flat 'shim' between the spring and the inside end of the bore in the 'head'. The hole in the 'shim' is a snug fit to the clamping screw. It also is a snug fit to the channel in the bottom of the fence. That accomplishes two things. It reduces the slop in that end of the screw, and eliminates the spring from snagging on the bore etc.

I am not sure if I replaced the spring, since the 'current' spring is fairly weak(works well). I may have replaced it to reduce the amount of torque required the tighten the clamp.

The hex nut was filed on two opposing flats to reduce the distance between them(another reason to be suspicious of the nuts genealogy). The std nut was not aligning with the screw/bore and both dragged in the channel and was proud of the clamp.(that causes the sliding clamp to ride high/bind)

The rear clamp had a screw inserted into the empty threads of the coupling that provided adjustment of the rear clamp. The screw serves as a 'jam' screw.

I am not satisfied with the lack of a washer or interface between the coupling nut and the surface of the clamp itself.

I intend to attempt to make a 'special shaped' nut now that I realize the need for it. The description of the nut as both hex and square revealed to me the reason for the shape of the 'nest' which was not so obvious initially. I only now have read the pdf and subsequently took a close look at the 'nest'.

I do not have a 500 version and am curious at the parts you have.

There is a lot of conjecture above re what the band saw fence design was/should be.

I went back to the bandsaw upgrade fence today. I am now satisfied with it.

I made two new parts for it.

bandsaw fence mod 2 parts.jpg (1.09 MiB) Viewed 6267 times

now the clamp nest shape makes sense.

bandsaw fence mod 2 nut.jpg (1.08 MiB) Viewed 6267 times

And the washer slides on the two raised edges better than the nut/coupler.

bandsaw fence mod 2 washer.jpg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 6267 times