Shopsmith Forums

The 9-0-9 plan by Cain is for those whose earnings are at the poverty level or below. Personally, I'm not sold on the 9-9-9 idea. Rather, I'm just passing on what I've heard and read about the subject from Cain's web site and what he's had to say about it. Not having the information filtered by some critic with an agenda helps in the understanding.

keakap wrote: 1) ex.: Old-- 15% inc. tax + 6+% FICA= 21+%. New-- 9%inc., NO FICA = 9%.
2) you DO pay a lot in Sales Taxes now, but it's hidden, in Corporate taxes and Regulatory add-ons. Corp.'s have to pass on those costs in product costs - TO YOU. // New-- lower Corp Tax rate]Power Pro[/color] for about half price.

If the 9% federal sales tax is only on new goods, then (as I heard Cain say) all the used goods will be bought up in a hurry, and people will not have to buy new goods. Ebay, CraigsList, etc., explode. So, all the businesses trying to sell their new goods have their market eliminated, because America switches from a "throw-away-and-buy-new" society to a "use-and-repair" society (like those who lived through the Great Depression became)? So what happens to all the businesses?

Put the name of any business in place of Shopsmith. What makes us think that businesses will actually reduce the prices of their new goods (pass the savings on to the consumer), if the scenario in my first paragraph takes place? I see Shopsmith as a perfect example as to what might happen on a larger scale if the 9% tax on new goods takes effect. Many complain that Shopsmith's prices are way too high for thier new items. Since there is a huge used-goods market for Shopsmith items, more people buy the cheaper, used goods. Shopsmith sells fewer new goods, so they have to keep their prices higher to break even. If we have a high sales tax placed on new goods, the "buy-used" markets will explode, and business will not be able to afford to pass on any savings they reap from the reduced hidden taxes they have to pay.

Will then, in the long run, prices get lower?

The point in the end is a flat tax. Start saying "except this or that" kinda defeats the purpose. Before long you are back to what we have now.

Let's get rid of money, and go back to bartering(no third parties(Guvmt) allowed!:D


Oh! That minimizes 'credit'(deficit spending) also!

JPG40504 wrote:Let's get rid of money, and go back to bartering(no third parties(Guvmt) allowed!:D


Oh! That minimizes 'credit'(deficit spending) also!

My wife and I have become badly addicted to eating out (never any place at all expensive, that is not who we are) but for many years we concentrated on direct production of a lot of our own food. Large intensive gardens, egg laying chickens, meat animals including meat chickens, pigs, sheep etc. After the kids moved out (a few times ) we moved away from it until we just don't cook at home much more than we eat out. We are only 2 miles from our cities main "calorie canyon". Our most frequent destination is a very good very reasonable Chinese buffet. I have often said the eating out has become the old peoples nation pass time.
In the past I virtually never hired anything done. I was the poster child of DIY. I still do most things myself but do break down and hire something done once in a while now. I was generally much more self sufficient than most folks by far. We did some bartering in those days.
We have discussed the possibility of going back more toward that lifestyle but generally don't really want to.
I do like being in the position to do so if we want to...

tryinhard wrote:... I see Shopsmith as a perfect example as to what might happen on a larger scale if the 9% tax on new goods takes effect. Many complain that Shopsmith's prices are way too high for thier new items. Since there is a huge used-goods market for Shopsmith items, more people buy the cheaper, used goods. Shopsmith sells fewer new goods, so they have to keep their prices higher to break even. If we have a high sales tax placed on new goods, the "buy-used" markets will explode, and business will not be able to afford to pass on any savings they reap from the reduced hidden taxes they have to pay.

Will then, in the long run, prices get lower?

Yes.
When hypothesizing a scenario, carefully try avoid the trap of changing some items while leaving others the same.
Ex.: "Shopsmith sells fewer new goods, so they have to keep their prices higher to break even."
BUT-- SS's costs, remember, have come down drastically. Their New products are rolling out at reduced costs allowing reduced selling prices. SS or any other manufacturer has an enormous incentive to sell at a profit, yes, but an even bigger incentive to sell, period!, so if they can sell at a reduced price while maintaining a reasonable, business sustaining profit, would they not do so? I think so.

The big thing, seems to me, is the removal of the most onerous, unfair, job crippling, maker-crippling costs: GOVERNMENT interference, in the form of gov't taxes to sustain gov't regulations and redundancies and especially waste!
Just think of how many times each screw in the headstock casing is taxed by Gov't, from it's ingredients' extraction from the earth to its installation in the tool. Literally hundreds! And how many items make up one Mark V? Thousands!
And how many workers, including sales people etc., etc., etc., are involved in the handling of that screw, with salaries- taxed, FICA- taxes, Med. plan- taxed, and on and on and on.
All of it goes into determining the cost of the unit in your garage. I bought my Mark 5 in the 80's. I bet that without the costs of Gov't-inherent involved, SS could sell me another one today at about the same price and still make a profit.
Wow. I sound like a crackpot, to myself evun.
But thinking of life in these United States without (essentially) unconstitutional taxes, fees and penalties that are at minimum 40% waste gets me all excited.

If the IRS and our tax "code" were eliminated tomorrow and replaced with a staff of one hundred and a new "code" that fit on two pages I bet the economy would be roaring ahead in 2 weeks.

I stopped after work today at the Oklahoma City demo, wanting to get a firsthand look at the PowerPro in action. I've been pretty sure that I wanted to eventually upgrade to it, now I'm positive. I couldn't believe how quiet and smooth it runs.

With the discount, I'll probably order a DIY kit tomorrow rather than waiting until this spring as I'd planned.

Roy

henecle wrote:Just stopped by the SS demo at the Lowe's in Manassas on Saturday to see the PowerPro in action... no intention of buying (trying to deal with that old "want versus need" thing). Felt very proud of myself, had a very nice chat with David Folkerth who was doing the demo, but left with just his card and a signed PowerPro flyer.

Worked all day Sunday on cleaning up garage and decided to go out for dinner... quick stop to show the other half what the new Shopsmith looks like and such before hitting the restaurant. I'm sure you can guess the rest... new PowerPro DIY Upgrade, Mk VII Tilting System and 510 to 520 upgrade. I didn't even know I needed any of these... but I sure wanted them Just took birthday and Xmas off the list. Now the watching for boxes shall commence!

roy_okc wrote:I stopped after work today at the Oklahoma City demo, wanting to get a firsthand look at the PowerPro in action. I've been pretty sure that I wanted to eventually upgrade to it, now I'm positive. I couldn't believe how quiet and smooth it runs.

With the discount, I'll probably order a DIY kit tomorrow rather than waiting until this spring as I'd planned.

Roy

What is this Powerpro demo thing you speak of??? I thought this thread was for election/economic discussions only.

algale wrote:What is this Powerpro demo thing you speak of??? I thought this thread was for election/economic discussions only.

Now why would you think that? Could it be about 41 posts out of 48 that might be considered off-topic? Whoops, make that 42 out 49.

algale wrote:What is this Powerpro demo thing you speak of??? I thought this thread was for election/economic discussions only.

My apologies for being on topic.