Shopsmith Forums

pennview wrote:Al, I guess we'll have to disagree on that. I owned a Delta contractors saw with a 1 1/2 horsepower motor before the Unisaw, and never had a problem with it being underpowered or the blade being skewed when tilted. And while I like Shopsmith equipment, the table saw function is just not for me.

Pennyview
You are absolutely correct. Blade heeling problems were resolved back in the late 80's and most even then were caused by blades not being parallel to the mitre slot.

I love my Shopsmith but if I had the room (willing to give up the room) I would have at least a contractor saw in a heartbeat. There is absolutely no comparison and as far as I'm concerned no competition.

These arguments about Unisaw is silly Delta didn't put in 70 lbs of cast iron in arbor support just because it would look good or cut down vibration. They did it because they knew without it people would be ripping the saw arbor out of the machine if they didn't. And even then some break when power feeds get too aggressive. So when people try to tell me their 1 1/8 at the right speed setting is as powerful as a 3 hp unisaw I have to smile.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Unisaws are called cabinet saws which carries the implication they are made for cabinet or furniture making.

I always thought it was because they sat on an enclosed cabinet rather than an open set of legs...

heathicus wrote:I always thought it was because they sat on an enclosed cabinet rather than an open set of legs...

This wikipedia definition works pretty good. You need to scroll down to see the part about cabinet saws.

There is enough equipment and opinions out there for everyone. My truth is I had some old equipment and it wasn't the greatest quality but it was what I could afford at the time. A $300 Mark V came into my life and I have been able to get rid of my old bandsaw and jointer. I have added a newer...'78 510. I still have my stand alone drill press and Delta contractors saws. I have three kids so those units are spoken for in the future.

I am happy and feel lucky to have a very nice couple of pieces of equipment to use in my small shop. My brother-in-law runs a cabinet shop for a government agency and has a great home shop in his 30'x60' building. I am sure he wouldn't think much of my equipment but then again, I bought the equipment for me.

Bob

heathicus wrote:I always thought it was because they sat on an enclosed cabinet rather than an open set of legs...

Heathicus you are absolutely right and I wasn't trying to change the definition. I was trying to point out that some mistakenly take the name to mean it was designed for cabinet work.

Someone else mentioned the Wikipedia definition and it is great but I believe it is using today's explanation rather than the real design purpose for all the cast iron and such. If you look at old tablesaws like Olivers and Hussey and few others you will see they were built massive to do massive jobs in production type shops. Rockwell/Delta brought out their commerical saws to duplicate these. Then I believe they downscaled them aiming at serious woodworkers not in a production shops, and from these evolved the unisaw.

The contractor saw was designed so it could be moved. Mounting the trunnion to the table instead of the cabinet insured that during the move the adjustment would not be lost. They downsized the motor and made it removable to again make the whole saw moveable. The massive trunnion/arbor cast iron assembly found in production machines was downsized again for weight and the fact the smaller motor would not stress them like the bigger more powerful ones would.

Then came the home woodworker and the people that would sell to them. Soon it was bigger is better so the ads all hyped the horse power and the need for it. After that wore off then they hyped superior adjustability of the cabinet mounted trunions and such. After that worn thin then the sold the vibration damping of the massive iron.

Interestingly Shopsmith showed them all up it was light weight, had power and by using good design and careful craftsmanship it didn't need cast iron to dampen the vibration they simply designed the vibration out of the machine.

Funny that Jr. DeChristoforo forgets THOUSANDS of 60 year old Shopsmith are working today, cutting, shaping, molding and the end result is still just a finished piece of wood, just done a little differently. In my opinion, any model Shopsmith going back to the beginning are capable of creating excellent resuits but with consideration to the craftsmans skill level. I've also seen knuckleheads screw-up using $160,000 precision Onsrud CNC machines. That said, its about the operator and I think his troubles and complaints are in his skill sets.

So even with the ups and downs thru those years, the Shopsmith name basic concept survives here in the good old USA. Times have certainly changed but a fair question would be, is $5,000 or whatever one cost today too much? Would you rather throw your dollars to the imported stand alone machines - good or bad ones, low or higher priced and how many of them? Would all those stand alone machines add up in comparable dollars and would they survive 60 years? Also, for the stand alone machines without longevity, how many would you go thru in 60 years?

Lets hope the Shopsmith tradition continues here in America and Jr. remembers where the bread for the family came from.

There is no doubt - you can buy some absolutely fantastic imported machines. You can also buy equally fantastic machines that are made in the USA but they are not designed to do what the Shopsmith does.

The Shopsmith is what it is. More significantly, it is NOT what it is NOT. It is not a production machine.

We do it an injustice every time we try to compare it to a machine that was designed and built to work in a high precision, industrial operation.

As a machine designed and built for the home wood worker, I do not believe there is a machine out there that can hold a candle to it.

As for the nay sayers like young DeChristoforo, who apparently do not know about the newer Mark Vs, I choose to totally ignore their comments and criticisms. There might have been a thread of truth in their comments at one time but I believe that is all historical and not accurate when discussing todays options. He has his rights to an opinion but so do I and I disagree with him. His only advantage is that he carries his father's name (and that might be all that he got from his father).

dusty wrote:There is no doubt - you can buy some absolutely fantastic imported machines. You can also buy equally fantastic machines that are made in the USA but they are not designed to do what the Shopsmith does.

The Shopsmith is what it is. More significantly, it is NOT what it is NOT. It is not a production machine.

We do it an injustice every time we try to compare it to a machine that was designed and built to work in a high precision, industrial operation.

As a machine designed and built for the home wood worker, I do not believe there is a machine out there that can hold a candle to it.

As for the nay sayers like young DeChristoforo, who apparently do not know about the newer Mark Vs, I choose to totally ignore their comments and criticisms. There might have been a thread of truth in their comments at one time but I believe that is all historical and not accurate when discussing todays options. He has his rights to an opinion but so do I and I disagree with him. His only advantage is that he carries his father's name (and that might be all that he got from his father).

Not to detract from the rest of Dusty's opinion, as he has stated it here (Dusty, I understand where you are coming from and do not disagree), but, as I understand it, ShopSmith uses plenty of their own machines to "mass" produce some parts for the Mark's and their accessories. Is that not proof that the Mark's can be used as production machines??? I believe, especially with the use of such precision accessories made available for use with the Mark's by Incra and others, that the Mark's can be production machines. Just my opinion.

brad_nalor wrote:Funny that Jr. DeChristoforo forgets THOUSANDS of 60 year old Shopsmith are working today, cutting, shaping, molding and the end result is still just a finished piece of wood, just done a little differently. In my opinion, any model Shopsmith going back to the beginning are capable of creating excellent resuits but with consideration to the craftsmans skill level. I've also seen knuckleheads screw-up using $160,000 precision Onsrud CNC machines. That said, its about the operator and I think his troubles and complaints are in his skill sets.

So even with the ups and downs thru those years, the Shopsmith name basic concept survives here in the good old USA. Times have certainly changed but a fair question would be, is $5,000 or whatever one cost today too much? Would you rather throw your dollars to the imported stand alone machines - good or bad ones, low or higher priced and how many of them? Would all those stand alone machines add up in comparable dollars and would they survive 60 years? Also, for the stand alone machines without longevity, how many would you go thru in 60 years?

Lets hope the Shopsmith tradition continues here in America and Jr. remembers where the bread for the family came from.

Come on quality equipment lasts and lasts and lasts. On a Delta contractor saw the only thing that I can think would wear out would be the arbor support bearings. If they did a trip to a bearing store would produce new ones.

If a casting cracked it could be repaired.

Take an old drill press what is going to wear out? Again the bearings and again a matter of going to the bearing store.

On shopsmith you have many unique parts, like the pork chop, that you would have to get from the manufacture. Look at the problems people are having trying to get that speed thingy for the Mark 7 or feed rails for the mark 7. So all parts aren't still avail.

Again I love my Shopsmith but come on at the going price of $4000 plus nearly $500+ a piece for the Spt's you can buy stand alone machines at the same price with more capability. Shopsmith still has the "fits in a small space" feature but....

In my opinion Shopsmith management is pricing themselves out of business.

Again I ask you an honest question, Would you knowing what you now know buy a new Shopsmith for nearly $4000 and Bandsaw for $544 a jointer for $489 and belt sander for $429 and three power stands for $1080 for a total of nearly $6500?
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a1gutterman wrote:Not to detract from the rest of Dusty's opinion, as he has stated it here (Dusty, I understand where you are coming from and do not disagree), but, as I understand it, ShopSmith uses plenty of their own machines to "mass" produce some parts for the Mark's and their accessories. Is that not proof that the Mark's can be used as production machines??? I believe, especially with the use of such precision accessories made available for use with the Mark's by Incra and others, that the Mark's can be production machines. Just my opinion.

I just e-mailed Bill Mayo about this lately; we were comparing notes from our 2008 Dayton factory tour. They use some old 10ER's to do hole-boring on rough aluminum headstock castings. They last and last!