Shopsmith Forums

OK since we've all seen the little creatures dance because of Dusty comments I wonder what this post will bring???

When I got my shopsmith they either offer a free set of classes or they came free as a special with my purchase (out of ad in popular science/mechanics). Most of the people that attended were not woodworks and were just getting in to the hobby. As a result the level of insturctions was very basic. But the good news was I got to see a shopsmith in action for the very first time... well I had mine and had been using a couple of weeks already and had read the PTWFE. And yes they tried to sell more stuff. The class was worth what I paid for it.

I have not nor do I intend to take anymore classes from shopsmith. But I can see that other might. If the cost to provide that raises the prices a few cents on things I buy... OK. If the burden is such that it raises the price of everything 10%, then I wouldn't be happy. In that case I would offer that they start pricing the class more in line with what it costs to do it. Sales at the even would be the profit. So how many that want the classes want them at $333.33 or $410.99??? At that level the number of people attending drops and the price rises so even less attend and we are back to where we started.

Would I drive to OH and take classes there... haven't done that and it is unlikely I'd start. Gas price go up, air travel goes up, hotel rates go up... fewer and few people go, and again we are getting no where fast.

Sorry but I'm not a fan of the classes on the computer either. I don't do the Sat events (except for the one they ask for help in testing...). Even if the time were different, the day different... nothing like that will prompt me go this route... If they stop doing it I don't care it's just not for me. I know that there are some what 30 or 50 of you that are active so again that is great for you. If they have to raise the prices of the tools 10% do cover this then I'm not going to be happy.

The videos on demand I have used a few times. I watch only selective things I think I'm interested in. Sometimes I'm wrong. If that older ones go away and they start selling DVD's of them I don't really care. If I miss something then so be it. I'm not going to be buying the DVD's either. I have a few DVD's from other tools that came free with them, I have some TV show off PBS that I taped and that is it. Plenty for me actually. If this turns into a new source of money for shopsmith fine... but again if it starts costing me because of it then I'm not happy.

You might be catching a theme here. Shopsmith is trying a new direction, one which they hope will be bringing in money with sales of DVD's. I don't intend to spend any money on videos and DVD's. Just not of interest me, I'd rather spend on the tool not the DVD. If videos keeps some of you happy and doesn't cost me anything then fine, that is great for all of us. But I can not get excited about video stuff.

I personally learn better if I have a book in hand and access to my tools, and I expect I'm not the only one. I like to read about it then do it myself. That is how I've done it before and the way I like to do it and I have good success that way. They say there are 3 basic ways people learn, some times you end up combining them like I described. The end results can be the same but if you try to use one that is not working for you then... well things might not be happening as easy or as quickly as you like.

Some of us see shopsmith as primarlly a place to buy tools and the video/TA's educational aspects are not all that importain. There you have it, I've said it, and now you all know.

Ed

reible wrote:OK since we've all seen the little creatures dance because of Dusty comments I wonder what this post will bring???...................................Some of us see shopsmith as primarlly a place to buy tools and the video/TA's educational aspects are not all that importain. There you have it, I've said it, and now you all know.

Ed

Thank you Ed for sharing your thoughts. That is what makes America great...differing opinions and with no harm done! You did give me another opportunity to use the emoticons that I thought I would never use! Just for fun, and just for you, I won't do it ;-)

osx-addict wrote:I'd personally like to know if the sawdust sessions are available in some sort of downloadable form.. ................

I believe that they discourage that idea.

I recommend that you view this thread, especially starting with post #11.
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1265&page=2&highlight=rip

You did give me another opportunity to use the emoticons that I thought I would never use! Just for fun, and just for you, I won't do it ;-)

AWWWW, Tim, I like your emoticons and after all they aren't educational and aren't likely to raise the price of Ed's tools.

Just kidding Ed. Please don't hit me.

reible wrote:...You might be catching a theme here. Shopsmith is trying a new direction, one which they hope will be bringing in money with sales of DVD's. I don't intend to spend any money on videos and DVD's. Just not of interest me, I'd rather spend on the tool not the DVD. If videos keeps some of you happy and doesn't cost me anything then fine, that is great for all of us. But I can not get excited about video stuff.

I personally learn better if I have a book in hand and access to my tools, and I expect I'm not the only one. I like to read about it then do it myself. That is how I've done it before and the way I like to do it and I have good success that way. They say there are 3 basic ways people learn, some times you end up combining them like I described. The end results can be the same but if you try to use one that is not working for you then... well things might not be happening as easy or as quickly as you like.

Ed

Hi, Ed - You have managed to put into words, what I have been thinking, but wasn't yet motivated to sort out my feelings and type them out.

Thanks for your post! - fresh thoughts and to the point. I have taken the liberty to pick out my two favorite paragraphs in the above quote.

I do, however love this forum, we can use it to learn, share - and sometimes help. Maybe even meet up with one another.

Ed Reible makes some very good points and while I agree on most everything he has said "about the TA and book learnin" I have taken a slightly different approach.

The Academy is "temporarily closed" so I shall not count on it for my woodworking education. Besides, I didn't even before they closed. I can't afford to travel to Ohio and pay for a week long stay. So, no Academy.

I love the Traveling Academy. Cost (to me) is reasonable. The classes are excellent and I enjoy the comradery of three days with fellow Shopsmithers. But the future seems bleak. The TA comes to only a small part of the country and even though Arizona has been included in the past there is no guarantee for the future. So, I'll no longer count on the TA. If they come, great, I'll attend but I'll not count on that.

The Sawdust Sessions are also an integral part of this process of learning. I find these sessions very useful and motivating. I typically spend the rest of the day in the shop after watching one. I shall continue to watch the online sessions and the reruns during the times in between. Will I buy DVDs? Time will tell. If the number of Hands-On DVDs that I own is an indication, the total number shall be very small. Even though they were just on sale for $5.25 (I think) each, I ordered none.

I have my Power Tool Woodworking For Everyone, I have several of Nick's writings, I have everything that I can gleen off of the forum, I have the Shopsmith Self Study Course and all of the manuals that came with my equipment. I even have a few Shopsmith manuals for equipment I don't own. When I see one at a used book store, I just can't resist.

Problem is, I am a poor reader. Manuals are not my favorite thing. They are my last resort.

Therefore, I have purchased "The Shopsmith Journals by Rick Davis" and "Repairing Shopsmith Mark V Headstocks" by Jacob Anderson. I have viewed these each at least three times. I will purchase Rick's future DVDs when they become available (if I can afford the shipping costs). Hmmm, maybe I'll just take a vacation and go to California and pick them up myself. Might be cheaper?:rolleyes:

With all of this reference material, I have no excuse. I should be able to handle most any task that comes my way.

More importantly, I have organized this data in a manner that my daughter and grandson will have ready reference to it when I no longer need it.

As a supplement to this data, I somewhat religously make copies of useful information that shows up here on the forum. For example: I have folder labeled "SS Info by BillMayo" and another labeled "SS Info by Nick". I also have a folder labeled "Pictures and Solutions by EdReible". There are several others but I doubt you are interested in the detail of my computer library.

Is there a point to all of this. Well, I like to think so. I keep this info first for my personal reference but just as importantly for my successors who have indicated an interest in my shop. Since I am not certain that all of these sources will remain available, I am compiling it for their benefit. If they don't continue to use my equipment, it won't be because they don't know how.

reible wrote:The videos on demand I have used a few times. I watch only selective things I think I'm interested in. Sometimes I'm wrong. If that older ones go away and they start selling DVD's of them I don't really care. If I miss something then so be it. I'm not going to be buying the DVD's either.

Although I've owned my used 500 for nearly ten years, I am still new to woodworking. Mostly, it just sat in my garage to cross-cut the occasional 2x4. As my day job gets more stressful, I find myself with an increasing desire to get away from it and do something hands-on.

I absolutely love the online Sawdust Sessions. As a beginner, I am learning a great deal about both my Shopsmith as well as woodworking in general. I don't have any intentions of buying DVDs. However, I can say that the free online video sessions have caused me to spend more money with Shopsmith for accessories than I otherwise would have spent. In fact, it was Nick's video on aligning the 520 table that convinced me to upgrade my 500 to a 520! Since then, I have seen things in other videos which have caused me to place two more orders since that upgrade order.

As I build more confidence and desire more capability, I'm sure this trend will continue.

- Chris

As I have been reading this replies to this thread a question has occurred to me that I am going to ask the group: For those of who who have attended a TA over the past year or two has the question been asked to attendees "how many of you own a computer and know how to use the internet? My point is this: while us forum users do, I am sure there are SS users who don't. If TA's rely on sales, as we all know they do, then maybe there is an "untapped market" out there waiting to be explored. It just would be nice to have an occasional TA show up in my neck of the woods every once in awhile. For the record when there was a TA offered in my area and the attachments were demonstrated and how they were shown to make this new hobby safer and more enjoyable, it resulted in a $1500.00+ purchase. If I viewed them being used online, I would have said "that's nice" but in all liklihood wouldn't have made the purchase. The same can be said of the newer items (Sand Flee included) that have come out. When it comes to what I consider to be large purchases I want to have the opportunity to try it out in person. Its just like buying a car: how many of you take a look at the car shown on a commercial and then go buy it without first taking it for a test drive yourself, looking under the hood, kicking the tires, etc.? Its the same with Shopsmith: Show me the tool in operation and during the demonstration, let me have a go at it to learn for myself how the tool works.

I can't believe there are that fewer woodworkers in the east of the Mississippi than there are in the west.

Take the observation for what its worth,
Blane

Len wrote:Pinkie, if you are ever down in Sonoma during the county fair, you MIGHT be able to see the SS guy. Unreal! While talking to you and smiling he band saws a rose for a lady. Very cool! Some fair deals too. But he wasn't here last year.....I'll let you know, come around July, if you can make it.

Len, that would be a fun road trip for sure.
Thanks for the heads-up and I'll look forward to it.

Sorry to do this in two post but I thought I'd address the topic of learning skills.
I have to agree with what Ed said about tool prices.
If an educations series can't stand on it's own w/o increasing tool prices then it isn't an efficient tool. It might be effective in producing the desired result of an educated audience, but it would be passing the buck to others who aren't using the service. On principle (and pocket book) I'm against that type of business arrangement. (or form of government)
That being said I'm not the type of "learner" that picks up mechanical skills well from a book. A book might give me an abstract idea of a process, but in most cases I'm guaranteed to use a fair amount of trial and error to get the desired results. That means more time, and money that I can't spare much of. (If I were retired that would be a different case, at least with the time aspect) The video series is far more beneficial to "my" style of learning and to further heighten my skills and hands on really is the final step in the process.
The video series here and in other venues makes it possible for me to tackle projects and do necessary maintenance on the equipment.
I'm anxiously awaiting Rick's video on Kitchen Cabinets and I'm preparing to buy Norm's series on a kitchen remodel.
What I'm getting at is that I buy my fair share of both books and videos so I don't feel the need to offset their cost by raising the cost of tools.