Shopsmith Forums

Short lived.

NEXT QUESTIONS.

I spent 2 hrs cleaning and switched 'er on...

1. QUILL: OK, I removed the Quill and cleaned,waxed it. Amazingly, I got it to go back in. However, the travel is about the same as before (not smooth). It retracts fast, then slow, then fast again in its travel. It would be OK for sawing and planing of course, but it would not be much fune for drilling/boring.

So... do I proceed to disassemble that pinion assembly which the rack rides on as per the video? Or should I leave well enough alone. Or...?

2. SPEED CONTROL: I switched the thing on and there are two things
a. The speed control is not smooth and consistent throughout the range. IOW: It's hard to turn in the slow range, then it becomes easy in the 'sanding' range, then it starts to show resistance again near the top end. Is this normal? If not, what to do?

b. I notice a certain amount of 'clatter' in the slowest end. Not terrible, but definitely not super-smooth. It then becomes smooth in the mid-range. Then at the top end, the whole headstock vibrates a -bit-; not terrible, but noticeable. Again: normal?

3. SPINDLE: I notice a -slight- bit of 'wobble'... I think it's what the guy in the video calls 'slop'. I thought it was my eyes at first. Probably not a huge deal but is this the 'single-bearing' issue? Is it a deal-breaker for simple turning or boring or can I live with it? If not, what to do?

4. CLEANING: So I got most of the rust off. But this guy was an -animal-. There's schmutz in like -every- orifice.
a. I sanded/polished the bottom tubes until I'm blue but they still have this 'bronze' tinge. Do I just live with it or is this the time for that Orange cleaner? I'm not concerned about cosmetics. I just don't want the 'cancer' to spread. If wax will keep it at bay I'm good.

5. ALIGNMENT: Assuming the above are OK, am I now at a point to go through the alignment procedure and start playing with the thing? Or are there other items to check off, first?

Again: Sorry for the novel. I REALLY appreciate all the help.

One other thing: Maybe it's Old Guy ADHD, but I'm one of those people who HATES videos. I'm sure that all my questions are answered on all the videos, but MAN do I -hate- spending 20 or 45 minutes on each one of these. I would -much- prefer if there were instruction PDFs or transcripts for the videos that I could print and take out to the garage with me. Anyhoo... sorry if I seem lazy. I -seriously- appreciate everyone taking the time to reply.

---JC



As ever...

---JC

There are some things you may find helpful, but they are generally buried in the threads, some of which are quite lengthy, and yet of great value.

The top Two Sticky Posts (they stay at the top) in Maintenance and Repair, are vital pieces of info.

“Everything Mark 5 / V - Technical info, documentation, links” started by MickeyD in 2010 is an index you can find valuable information from. http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... 190#p58190

You can copy and paste your own document together from there taking the bits and pieces you need.

First and foremost you will need the reference point of what is everything called, even nicknamed such as the quadrant of the speed control mechanism being referred to as the Pork Chop.

I prepared a PDF with photos that I hoped would help with that sort of orientation. It is titled “Buying a Used Shopsmith Revisited” and is in PDF form at http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... 90#p185690.

In that thread I also reworked some full size exploded parts drawings that may be helpful to you for visual reference in the shop.

Some are Blueprint size and if you have a large format printer may help, but you don’t have to have one to print them on regular paper. Most printers will allow the fit to page size of the paper your printer has, as well as printing it full size on multiple sheets that you can tape together.

Links to the threads where each is posted appear below in the same thread as the Buying a Used Shopsmith one listed above.

“Bill Mayo’s Headstock Improvement Kit” (with a June 2016 update by Bill) appear there, and are also recommended reading.

Owner’s Guides are written from the use and adjustment perspective and are quite helpful for that but they are not a Service Guide for Repair. That is what this user supported forum is for.

When you consider that I have one of the earliest Greenie Sand-Cast ‘A’ Series headstocks myself, and that the simple lubrication and waxing was all that was required to keep it running 60 plus years without a known teardown, repair manuals just weren’t written. My Greenie will get a new set of bearings for the headstock and motor when I tear her down eventually.

The problems occur on those that were not maintained, lubricated and waxed regularly, or that were stored in wet conditions, even left outside for years. I have restored one with a buddy that was submerged in Hurricane Katrina flooding in New Orleans, then drug out and allowed to rust six months in a barn.

Total tear-down, cleaning, and touch up paint with a lot of patience – literally no parts replaced. We did drill a small hole in the power switch and flooded it with contact cleaner, and did carefully wash out the motor after disassembling it.

We used posts on how to adjust the gilmer clutch assembly and every other aspect of servicing it, the headstock and everything inside it with posts in these forums, with that MickyD index sticky post referenced above.

Sorry now, but at no point then did we ever envision someone else being interested in it and took no photos of the process ourselves, but photos in those posts guided us every step of the way.

You can do this and there is stuff here in the forums to help you. Cut and Paste may be your best friend as you make your own repair manual from posts, and I totally understand the 20 to 45 minute videos adding up.

One of the links in the “Everything Mark 5 / V - Technical info, documentation, links” takes you to
http://allinonewood.com/?page=shop/serv ... 26e639a3b9
where you may find something useful. Some of those PDF’s may be more of what you are looking for.

1. Replacing the Mark V Motor (505kb)

2. Replacing the Motor Spring (293kb)

3. The Fan Sheave Rubbing Motor Plate Repair (119kb)

4. Replacing the Mark V Power Cord (403kb)

5. Replacing the Mark V Switch (202kb)

6. Replacing the Mark V Drive Belt (153kb)

7. Replacing the Speed Changer (233kb)

8. Replacing the Mark V Idler Shaft (634kb)

9. Replacing the Mark V Control Sheave (356kb)

10. Replacing the Poly "V"/Gilmer Belt (805kb)

11. How to Replace the Quill Spring (415kb)

12. How to Replace the Pinion Shaft (365kb)

13. How to do a High Speed Adjustment (383kb)

14. How to Replace the Quill (103kb)

15. How to increase/decrease Quill Tension (138kb)

16. How to Replace Spindle Bearings (101kb)

17. How to Reset the Outside Speed dial (117kb)

18. How to Replace the Headstock Lock (157kb)

19. How to Replace the Carriage Lock (238kb)

20. Replacing the Table Pinion Assembly (97kb)

21. Instructions for Removing the Headstock (115kb)

22. Instructions for Returning the Headstock (215kb)

23. Securing the Nameplate on Older Mark V's (60kb)

24. Remove/Replace 500 RIP Fence Mechanism (Old) (79kb)

25. Remove/Replace the Drive Ring Assembly (393kb)


Good Luck,
Everett

When you had the quill 'out', did you notice if the groove on the top had any burrs or narrowing width or gunk in the groove. Either one CAN cause the sticky/varying travel. Also did you back the top set screw that rides in that groove out enough so it does not drag. If all is well with the groove, a good look at the quill feed pinion gear is in order. A favorite place for 'schmuck' to accumulate.

Since I believe you have adequately oiled the sheaves, a close look at the speed control itself(especially the quadrant gear) may reveal the cause of the tightness at extreme ends.

This beast is noisy especially if the movable sheaves are worn(slop!).

The quill shaft - is it bent? or does it move sideways?

JPG wrote:When you had the quill 'out', did you notice if the groove on the top had any burrs or narrowing width or gunk in the groove.

No. Nice and clean. I get the impression that the previous owner(s) only used it for a table saw. It's terribly corroded where pieces are exposed, but it doesn't even look like various parts were even moved in/out or up/down. Ever.

JPG wrote:Either one CAN cause the sticky/varying travel. Also did you back the top set screw that rides in that groove out enough so it does not drag.

I did. On the video, the guy says something about 'acu-punky' (sic) which seals that top screw at the factory? But there was nothing like that.

JPG wrote:If all is well with the groove, a good look at the quill feed pinion gear is in order. A favorite place for 'schmuck' to accumulate.

I think you mean schmutz. I guess the pinion gear is further on in the video?

JPG wrote:Since I believe you have adequately oiled the sheaves, a close look at the speed control itself(especially the quadrant gear) may reveal the cause of the tightness at extreme ends.

Can I access this just by taking off the metal sides?


This beast is noisy especially if the movable sheaves are worn(slop!).

JPG wrote:The quill shaft - is it bent? or does it move sideways?

Nope. Like I said. It looks almost -new- on all the bits that weren't exposed. Looks like it was never moved--which makes me feel better about this 'gift'. My hope is that it's low mileage under a layer of rust.

Quill BODY is what you have been describing/working on.

Quill SHAFT is what may be bent, wobbly.

There are no 'sides' to get to the speed control. There is the set screw on the 'knob' and three screws under it. After disconnecting the clip from the control sheave from the quadrant gear the speed control is removable from the headstock. What to look for is the condition of the gear teeth on the quadrant gear and if the legs supporting it are bent.

Speed control removal at 12 min +

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt2.htm

Quill shaft removal - watch the whole thing

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS124
/SS1224_Shopsmith_Reborn_Pt4.htm

Tie a string on the end of the shaft to capture the domed washer as you remove it.

From your description, the return spring may be causing the sluggish action.

fixed second link http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt4.htm

Thanks for doing this!

---JC

rpd wrote:fixed second link http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt4.htm

1. So according to Nick's video, it seems like if the spring is damaged, most people buy a whole new quill assembly rather than replace just spring. Does that sound about right?

2. I watched the other video. I guess I'm taking apart the speed control tomorrow.

Thanks again.

---JC

JPG wrote:Quill BODY is what you have been describing/working on.

Quill SHAFT is what may be bent, wobbly.

There are no 'sides' to get to the speed control. There is the set screw on the 'knob' and three screws under it. After disconnecting the clip from the control sheave from the quadrant gear the speed control is removable from the headstock. What to look for is the condition of the gear teeth on the quadrant gear and if the legs supporting it are bent.

Speed control removal at 12 min +

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt2.htm

Quill shaft removal - watch the whole thing

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS124
/SS1224_Shopsmith_Reborn_Pt4.htm

Tie a string on the end of the shaft to capture the domed washer as you remove it.

From your description, the return spring may be causing the sluggish action.