charlese wrote:you can sell a lot more than 22,000 with your new, coming, Shopsmith.net. But there has to be a vehicle to lead folks to the web site. Magazine adds seem to work for other woodworking machine manufacturers. e.g. "find it at Lowe's" placed in the add.
I agree with this point! I understand Nick's explanation of why magazine ads are not SS's primary sales tool, but I'm at a loss as to why it shouldn't be in the mix at least. Mag. ads may not convince people to buy always, but they at least build brand awareness and that can make the difference at decision time. People are hesitant to buy a brand they perceive (and perception is reality to most) to be 'fly by night' or 'on the fringe'.
Again, I have in mind reaching the new/occasional woodworker who has never heard of SS. A case in point is the e-mail recieved today from SS; "Woodworking Wisdom from Smitty". I'm already convinced!! and would venture to say that most people who recieved this e-mail are too. If I'm wrong, accept my humble apology, but I wonder how many non SS owners got that e-mail?
No criticism intended, I just hope that while 'chewing the hay and spitting out the stubble' of our comments, the SS people may find at least one helpful nuggett! I love my SS!!!!!! and want to make sure my son will still be able to enjoy it down the road.
I think there is one hurdle we still haven't talked about. That is "Hands ON"! No not the magazine but the actual hands on time with the machine.
I don't know many people that would buy a $3000+ machine without at least touching it. I know I sure wouldn't.
There was an interesting discussion over in the Ridgid forum a while back. Apparently without Ridgid's knowledge or agreement Home Depot removed all the floor display models of Ridgid tools. I don't know if every store was removed or not because I think when Ridgid learned of the move they tried to stop it.
In any case the discussion was would you buy a Ridgid contractor saw or jointer just by looking at a picture on a sign in the store. Most agreed they wouldn't. Ridgid still has an advantage over SS, in that HD stocks the machine and you can take it home today. Plus if you want to return it you simply drive back with the machine.
Now think about SS first you have to order without really seeing the machine. Then you have to wait until is shipped to you, including all the games of getting it out of truck and where you want it. Then if you decide it is not for you having to pack and ship it back.
To me this seems to be a huge stumbling block in SS marketing. While the Demo's really never allowed you to test drive the machine. They were slick enough to convince you the machine did everything to perfection and all you needed to so was buy one. That aspect of SS selling seems to be one they got rid of.
As for magazine advertising I think that opens a door for negative advertising also. Ask any old grizzled woodworker about a SS and the answer is almost always, "don't mess with that thing get yourself a real saw."
I had a friend that almost frothed at the mouth at the mention of SS yet he never used one. Since we lived several states apart it took awhile for him to actually visit to see my SS. Again he was very negative. However the last time he was here I was working on the SS and frankly he was impressed. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised to see him own one some day. Mention SS to nearly anyone and the first thing they say is it is lousy saw but when you try to nail them down and have them tell you what in particular they didn't like you find they never used a SS.
I think magazine advertising may get people talking but it might be negative talking.
Ed
I have been in sales most of my life. I learned many years ago that advertising is both a curse and a necessity. Many people in my line of work shun the whole idea of advertising. I buy small giveway items, Calendars, Pens, Letter openers. I also do yellow page, magazine and local newspaper adds. I have been known to have booths at county fairs, business expos and a variety of consumer shows. I have never found a truly bad or the perfect ad. I do know that it takes all kind of ad's to keep my name in front of my prospects. I track what makes prospects buyers. The answers are seldom the same except that many people say I see your name everywhere. Jim
Nick, don't wait to get invited to the party! The companies that get their products reviewed in these woodworking magazines also ADVERTISE in these magazines. Shopsmith has been invisible for years. The only people who see your website and e-newsletters are people who already own Shopsmith products. I never see Shopsmith ads in these magazines. You're "preaching to the choir." Spend some money on marketing and you'll sell more machines!
Just my $.02.
TP
Nick wrote:One of the most valuable things you can do, Ed, is to lean on the editors of those woodworking magazines to which you subscribe. Whenever they compare power tools, we are ALWAYS left out. To a certain extent, I can understand this -- the Mark V is a hard tool to classify. You really can't compare it to stand-alone power table saws and disc sanders.
On the other hand, we do manufacture some very good stand-alone tools. Our pro-planer, scrollsaw, and belt sander are second to none -- they would do extremely well in an honest comparison. The overhead router, if it were tested toe-to-toe with commercial router tables, would run away with the field. Many professional carvers use our strip sander with the sharpening attachment and swear it's the best sharpening system on the market. Yet we can't get most editors to consider us at all. The excuse is that all our tools, because they are designed to be mounted on the Mark V, are part of a unique, proprietary system. It seems to make no difference that they all can be mounted on their own stand with their own motor. Not only can't we get anybody to ask us to dance, we're never invited to the party.
Next time you see Shopsmith is left out of a tool comparison, complain to the editor AND his publisher. Believe me, that will get their attention. And maybe we'll get a few invitations.
I guess I have been visiting on another planet because: 1) I did not know about Shopsmith having financial problems, and 2) I have not experienced any problems in ordering items. Last night I was in my local Woodcraft store to pick up some woodworking supplies. I was told by a couple of employees that Shopsmith has closed the store at the factory in Dayton. Please say its not the case! I like to stop in when I'm in the area and see what they have on hand. While I may not be a big time purchaser, I always found one or two things I could pick up for my Shopsmith. If someone would either confirm or deny this information, it would be greatly appreciated.
Shopsmith used to do a great job when it came to announcing when they would be in our area. When I was younger and had no money, I always saw Shopsmith ads in Popular Mechanics and other publications. I sent the postcards in and would receive information on the Mark V. When Shopsmith came to our annual Home and Garden Show and put on a demonstration, my wife would have to pull me away from the demo to look at the other exhibits. It was always nice the Shopsmith gave away something for visitors watching the demo. The last time Shopsmith came to the Fort Wayne area for the Home and Garden Show, I purchased the fiftieth anniversary verision of the 520, along with the caster package and the lathe package. My wife said she thought I was going to do that when I retired. My response to her was that life is too short, I might be dead by then, etc.(nothing like a little philosophy mixed in with a helping of guilt to make a point) and that I wanted to get started with then, not later. I have since made purchases from Shopsmith on a steady basis, as my purchase record would attest. I have not seen a demonstration in my area since then. The local Lowes no longer offer the Mark V or have demos. There was no Shopsmith demos at the Indiana State Fair either last year or the previous three years. I don't know about this year since I didn't attend. At our earlier Home and Garden Show last March I was really looking forward to going because SHOPSMITH WAS GOING TO BE THERE! I was severely disappointed that no one from Shopsmith showed up. I was so unhappy I took the time to call Shopsmith and was told the representative could not make it due to some vehicle problems.
Here's the point: Shopsmith needs to do more marketing and get back to basics when it comes to the Mark V. Hire demonstrators to show the versatility of the machine and pay them a salary. Advertise in magazine like Family Handyman, Wood, Workbench, as well as similar publications. Get more Traveling Academies scheduled. In other words, GET THIS SHOW BACK ON THE ROAD. While I get the e-mail specials and other notifications as a Shopsmith owner, I still like to go to view the demos and see some of the the machine in operation. As a matter of fact, when I purchased my machine, there was an older gentleman who advised me to do it then, and that I would not regret the decision. Shopmith needs to do more than just relying on the internet to get its message out. Nothing is better than the personable approach. It takes money to make money. While I am on the soapbox, I hope that the President, Chairman, and Nick Engler take the time to read this and that maybe, just maybe, we will all hear and read more form Shopsmith in the future.
I remember early in my insurance carreer hearing most agents comment they found advertising a waste of money. In that I suffer from being unable to follow directions I decided to advertise. Local print publications certainly kept my name in front of folks. It was the Yellow Pages that made the biggest local impact. In the last few year I am realizing a combination of my web site and print advertising pay the biggest dividends. As the years passed I increased the size of my ads. Recently I have made the ads smaller and find I have hit on a combination that is working well. I have no need or interest in bragging yet clearly realize that "advertising Pays Off big time." I agree that Shopsmith would do well to advertise in the magazines that folks interesting in tools read. I also believe that a web site pro could make their web site more friendly. Jim
F. Jim Parks
Lakewood, Colorado:)
When the love of power is replaced by the power of love the world will have a chance for survival.
reible wrote:Please if we can keep the postings to things WE can do and comments about that...... giving advice to shopsmith unless they ask for it will most likely result with little success no mater how good it is. By the way feel free to start a thread on advice for shopsmith if you wish.
To add on to Nicks idea... when was the last time you saw a shop project where a shopsmith was pictured and used for the project in one of the woodworking magazines?? How about someone upgrading the 500 to a 510 or 520..... someone restoring an older machine or how about someone showing a tune-up of a shopsmith.
I have no idea how many shopsmith machines are out there but one would think a magazine might be interested in some submissions.... especial if they got some email asking for some shopsmith coverage???
Heck even I would mind getting published....... how about you?
Ed
This thread is getting off subject again. Please no more advice for shopsmith here....... start your own thread for that if you like, just as I said before.
dusty wrote:was the original theme of this thread.
Has the thread really been high jacked??? I don't think so.
It has been hi-jacked six ways from Sunday.
Now I don't care much for that and worse yet I find I sometimes add to the problem. Since I started the thread and explained what I was interested in seeing posted in this thread I can tell you about 80% of the content is not on the subject. I'm not saying it isn't worth posting but it is not in the theme of the heading/thread.
If someone new comes to the forum to find information of interest to them and uses the titles of the post they will miss out on many interesting posts that are hi-jacked in amoung threads. So they may miss out thinking they are interested in by not reading all the posts and they may not have the time or energy to read them all. The contents may have a lot to offer but it needs to be in a new thread.
Now it just about makes it required to read each and every post as the thread title doesn't even hint at what must be inside. I for one try to read almost every post here and in my humble opinion if this is getting to be too much for me then it is for others also...
It is especial bad when you get back after a couple of weeks and see all the posts you have to try and read... In that case I have to pick ones on subjects which interest me and have no idea what I might be missing in mis-threaded posts. If you don't believe me take two weeks off from the forum and then come back and you get a new perspective.
On a small board I can deal with it but it has got so busy here that I can't anymore. Maybe its time for me to move on, I don't know much else to do as I'm not enjoying the forum like I once did.
So I'm thinking maybe the best thing I can do for shopsmith is to....
