My Model 10-ER Journey

[Real1shepperd]

Real1shepperd,

You said,

I haven't been able to wreak the full RPM range from my speed changer.

I am curious what speed ranges you are getting.

The Belts should be 4L220 and 4L250. The original sizes were 4L225 and 4L 255 but are hard to find. If you bought them from Skip, they should be correct. Some belts may vary in that 4L width.

Instead of painting the pulley you could use something attached to the Quill's Spindle with more contrast. I have used an Arbor that has the black protective coating for that contrast.

A possible cause is the spacing of the Floating Pulley Assembly. The outside sheaves should have the one belt almost touching the shaft while the other runs close to the outside edge of the pulley. If the one belt is touching the center shaft that could cause slippage. Are the belts sitting close to even with the outside edge of the Headstock and Motor Pulleys? In the picture below the Belt on the Headstock is just shy of even with the outer edge of the pulley. Those are new belts in the picture. Again, belt widths may vary. A narrower or worn belt will sit down further into the pulley.

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Low Range - Slow Speeds.jpg
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Another possible problem could be old, worn or simply bad bearings. That would put extra work on the motor.

As the Speed Changer Chart says

All above speeds are only approximate and may vary according to belt tension, or wear, or current voltage.

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Below is a PDF replica of the Speed Changer Chart.
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Speed Changer Chart.pdf

Russ,
My speed range is 2270-4949rpm, as measured with the electronic tool. I should be getting 2000-6600rpm. I've paid particular attention to the belt spacing clearance, as per Skip's instructions. His only suggestion now was to shave down the width of the new belts. I'm not going to do that. When the weather drives me into the garage, I'll do the paint trick and report back. It's not like I'm handicapped using the 10ER, just not getting the full range of speeds.

I was gonna wait on all the bearings because there's no play and no noise as of yet. Maybe this spring.

Kevin

[chapmanruss]

Have you checked the speeds in the low range? They should be from 425 to 1600 RPM. The upper range, according to the chart, is 1850 to 6800 RPM. I can't explain why you are getting a narrower range (2000-6600) on both ends. Have you checked the RPM of the motor?

I haven't seen my tach since moving so I cannot check my speed ranges, but I have done it in the past and as I remember they were pretty near normal.

[Real1shepperd]

Have you checked the speeds in the low range? They should be from 425 to 1600 RPM. The upper range, according to the chart, is 1850 to 6800 RPM. I can't explain why you are getting a narrower range (2000-6600) on both ends. Have you checked the RPM of the motor?

I haven't seen my tach since moving so I cannot check my speed ranges, but I have done it in the past and as I remember they were pretty near normal.

I have several old charts and they all aren't in exact agreement. The numbers Skip thought were relevant ideally for the machine I posted previously. I have not tried it yet in low range.....might be worth the effort to see what's going on down there.

Yeah, I should check that old motor and see what the rpm really is. I went through it this summer and put in a new start capacitor, cleaned and oiled everything. It's not an AO Smith....it's a GE motor from the 60's I believe....probably a replacement. Looks like a garden variety farm motor to me with the correct rpm spec/shaft etc. I'll do it two ways; loaded with the belts on and unloaded with no belts.

Kevin

[chapmanruss]

The Speed Changer Chart PDF I posted previously is a replica as shown in two of the different Speed Changer Instructions.

Although the A. O. Smith 1/2 HP Motor is the more common and the one supplied with the Model 10E and 10ER when purchased together I have seen others. The Model 10's were sold without a motor and one could be added to the purchase. A 3/4 HP A. O. Smith Motor was an option. I have had Model 10's come with Montgomery Ward, Craftsman, GE and other motors.

[Real1shepperd]

I have the original 10ER 'wheel' chart and some replica charts that included instructions on how to set up the speed changer. Also have Skip's instructions for setting up the speed changer.

Yeah, I think the motor might have been a replacement ten years+ or so after the 10ER was purchased. The heir said it was used less and less as his dad became older. Then his dad passed, and it sat for 20 years.

I will eventually put on a 3/4 hp motor for my 10ER. The 1/2 hp is helping me stay safe as I relearn woodworking techniques. I've stalled it quite a few times doing dumb things. A larger motor would have kicked back.

I haven't gotten into the 10E yet I bought for my friend. But I posted it was a double-end sheave unit with the switch on the motor itself. I don't know enough about the oldest ones to know the options available at that time. When I start in on it, I'll post the serial # and see if we can roughly figure its age. It was supposedly bought in the '40s......I think the guy said '47. Supposedly the motor had been "gone through"....whatever that meant in their vernacular. It does have an early speed changer that was added on but strangely, put back in the drawer. It's all there and not rusted.

Kevin

[chapmanruss]

The Model 10E was introduced in 1947 and the first 250 units made were shipped out in November to West Coast Montgomery Ward Stores. So, 1947 may be correct. The motor was probably intended for use on a bench for a grinder type setup or to power multiple tools with pulleys on both shaft ends. I have had a couple of the double end shaft motors like you described. I used a Shopsmith STP Pulley Cover over the right-side motor shaft for protection.

As for the Speed Changer, the early ones had a couple of differences compared to the later and more common ones. The most noticeable difference was the 0 to 8 scale as opposed to the later 0 to 5 scale for the speed. It is interesting though that the actual part of that 0 to 8 scale used was only the 0 to 5 section leaving 6 to 8 unused. The other difference is the Floating Sheeve in the Pulley Assembly. The early Floating Sheeve did not have a sleeve it was pressed onto. Later Floating Sheeves have that sleeve it is pressed onto which helps keep the belt off the main sleeve the outside sheeves attach to. I don't know if this was the reason for the change, but it does help keep the lubrication used to keep the Floating Sheeve sliding on the main sleeve away from the belts.

[Real1shepperd]

Russ,

Thanks for that info on the early speed changers. Skip mentions that in his tutorials as well. I'll get into all that when I start repurposing the 10E.

The blank hole is in the headstock for the switch.....but nothing there. The switch is on the motor.....was that common for the double-enders?

I'm sure they ran some sort of accessory off the one end....I couldn't care less and don't need any more safety challenges. I'll probably just remove the sheave. Depends on the 'real' shape of the motor, not what the seller said if I keep it or not. I want the switch in the headstock and I'm sure the new owner does as well.

Given that speed changers go for around $200+ on eBay....we'll keep and deal with this one. The sheave is free moving. The 'deal' speed changer I bought on ebay for my 10ER was locked solid. Took much persuasion/thought even after two days submerged in acetone/ATF. Never doing that again if I can help it.

Kevin

[chapmanruss]

Kevin,

You asked,

The blank hole is in the headstock for the switch.....but nothing there. The switch is on the motor.....was that common for the double-enders?

I have seen what you are describing. A switch on the motor was common and for the reason I previously posted below.

The motor was probably intended for use on a bench for a grinder type setup or to power multiple tools with pulleys on both shaft ends.

No switch in the Headstock and only using the one on the motor is a problem I have seen with some motors that are double shaft ended. Having the switch on the motor itself, in many cases, puts it at the back of the Headstock. I have bypassed and removed the switch on the motor and used the Headstock switch location only. You could leave the switch on the motor and add the switch to the Headstock location if desired. In my opinion it is a good idea to use the Headstock as the primary switch location. There it is easier to turn off the tool at that location with a downward motion as opposed to trying to turn off the tool using a switch attached to the motor.

Many of the older motors have wiring to them that needs replacing. Most of my Model 10E and 10ER restorations get new power cords including from the switch to the motor. This replaces cords that may have brittle insulation from age and adds a ground which was not common in their era. To that I usually add a new switch too. Some motors have terminals inside to attach the power cord to coming from the switch while others have the wires spliced.

[Real1shepperd]

Russ,

Agreed on the switch location in the headstock. I'm probably gonna use his machine when at his house I want it in the same location so I don't have to think about it when killing the power.

I go through the entire motors, check with a good VOM the commutator bars, the field windings, capacitors...everything. I replace any wires that are brittle if possible. Yeah, the GE motor had terminals.

At first with my 10ER, the chord looked reasonable, even pliable. Within a few weeks though, it self-destructed like with the original TV "Mission Impossible" mission tape.

Kevin