Some Shopsmith history (Kinda)

[dusty]

[quote="nuhobby"]I just e-mailed Bill Mayo about this lately]

I really did not mean to imply that a Mark V was not capable of production work; rather, only that most Mark V owners do not do production work (schedule wise) and therefore do not need that capacity.

Right here on the forum there is a fine example of a Shopsmith supported production operation - mccabinetmaker. He definitely does production work and does a lot of it with a Mark V.

Frequent changeovers works against the Mark V if it is the only machine supporting a production operation.

[brad_nalor]

On shopsmith you have many unique parts, like the pork chop, that you would have to get from the manufacture. Look at the problems people are having trying to get that speed thingy for the Mark 7 or feed rails for the mark 7. So all parts aren't still avail.

Again I love my Shopsmith but come on at the going price of $4000 plus nearly $500+ a piece for the Spt's you can buy stand alone machines at the same price with more capability. Shopsmith still has the "fits in a small space" feature but....

In my opinion Shopsmith management is pricing themselves out of business.

Again I ask you an honest question, Would you knowing what you now know buy a new Shopsmith for nearly $4000 and Bandsaw for $544 a jointer for $489 and belt sander for $429 and three power stands for $1080 for a total of nearly $6500?
__________________

Currently, no to buying a new one. But only because I have everything for my woodworking needs. Obviously it seems they continue to fulfill that niche market, unique enough and mostly made in America. If today I was one who fit that niche - had minimal space and wanted a quality multi-function machine, made in America, I'd be a new customer.

You did bring a good point up of the Mk7. To me and about the 1960's versions, I view them as an exceptional engineered piece of machinery for its era but the company ownership today might learn from its faults. Fifty year old Mk7 and with plastic parts used in a workshop don't last and thats precisely whats on a majority of machines today.

Onto the new re-nomenclature Mk7: As wonderful as the new drives and electronic controllers are, I have a problem seeing those components having longevity. I hope I'm wrong and prefer older mechanical drive reductions / increasers. Also, the New Zealand company Teknatool supplier to SS has some terrific stuff but with much of it now Asian made, only makes me stay away from it for other reasons only. I want to buy products made in America.

As for the comment of them pricing them out of the market, I'll take an outsider's opinion. Whether they make a profit, break even or lose per new machine unit, they make it up in selling accessories to an incredible and valuable customer database. The old tooling used in producing those jointers, bandsaws and many other components of the main unit have been paid off many years ago and probably are the only reason why the company hangs on. Thank goodness they can, no matter the restructuring or pricing strategy.

My guess is if Shopsmith produced all in Asia, the quality would remain and could be sold for one half of what they retail for now and have a healthy profit. But thats also the the reason I won't buy any Apple product. With staggering nets, I whole hardily despise the giant Apple company, management philosphy of over the top greed, for the duping and selling us short as most of the products is outsourced to asia's Foxconn (but Americans could care less when their retirement counts on the stock valuation).

[fjimp]

Having over the last eight years purchased nearly all of Shopsmith tools new from the factory I must say that given the same situation and ability to pay for the tools at that time, yes I would do it again. Given the spiral of my finances since entering a state of semi retirement. Thank God I planned ahead.

As to the Mk 7, I heard from the demonstrator, last Thursday at the local Lowes Demo say that the MK 5 is no longer manufactured. Given how well the Mk7 upgrade functions and how alignment issues appear to be a thing of the past and adding how quiet and smooth the Power Pro is, I am 100% sold on the Mk 7. In fact my remaining Mk5 520 sits more than it did in the past. Hopefully that will change when the Mk7 upgrade for it arrives here soon. I can hardly wait to see that machine upgraded and those big red wheels proudly awaiting those moments when I desire to rearrange. Jim

[dusty]

Having over the last eight years purchased nearly all of Shopsmith tools new from the factory I must say that given the same situation and ability to pay for the tools at that time, yes I would do it again. Given the spiral of my finances since entering a state of semi retirement. Thank God I planned ahead.

As to the Mk 7, I heard from the demonstrator, last Thursday at the local Lowes Demo say that the MK 5 is no longer manufactured. Given how well the Mk7 upgrade functions and how alignment issues appear to be a thing of the past and adding how quiet and smooth the Power Pro is, I am 100% sold on the Mk 7. In fact my remaining Mk5 520 sits more than it did in the past. Hopefully that will change when the Mk7 upgrade for it arrives here soon. I can hardly wait to see that machine upgraded and those big red wheels proudly awaiting those moments when I desire to rearrange. Jim

Hearing that the Mark V is no longer manufactured is not good news. If those words can be taken as absolute, that would mean that many of the parts that are critical to the operation of a Mark V will begin to diminish in number (availability becomes an issue).

Hopefully, what is really being reported is that the Mark 7 is expected to be their market mainstay and that Shopsmith will no longer sell the complete Mark V but that they will maintain a parts inventory to support the Mark Vs that are in the field.

This could also just be a salesman blowing hot air. I hear that they do that from time to time.

[beeg]

Well the 3 are still listed for purchase.

http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/purchaseNB.htm

[robinson46176]

Hearing that the Mark V is no longer manufactured is not good news. If those words can be taken as absolute, that would mean that many of the parts that are critical to the operation of a Mark V will begin to diminish in number (availability becomes an issue).

Hopefully, what is really being reported is that the Mark 7 is expected to be their market mainstay and that Shopsmith will no longer sell the complete Mark V but that they will maintain a parts inventory to support the Mark Vs that are in the field.

This could also just be a salesman blowing hot air. I hear that they do that from time to time.

I believe that your last statement is the most likely. Even then I do expect that there is a possibility that a full supply of parts for the older headstocks will at some point begin to dry up, just not quickly. That happens with all kinds of equipment and tools, usually a lot faster than it does with Shopsmith. That is one of several reasons that I have been in no hurry to sell off any of my stash...
While I often say that "some guys could break an anvil while straightening feathers", there are a certain parts that will never wear out or break in any kind of normal use. Still, as long as I keep having experimenting attacks I want to hang on to most of my stuff. Then again if parts become unavailable through SS at some point there will be a lot of used units being sold by guys that are not as good at keeping obsolete stuff going as I am.
On simple wear out parts most of us can already work around if need be. Vee belts should never be a problem. The Gilmer belt could be a problem but we can convert those if necessary. If the correct Gilmer can not be located it might even be possible to use one a little longer and use an idler of some sort much like was commonly used on Gilmer type serpentine belts on some cars. Bearings should never be a problem. They are available all over the place.
We all know about the huge parts source on Ebay where sometimes bargains can be found and sometimes people pay more for used parts and shipping than it might cost for new parts and shipping from Shopsmith.
One only has to look to these pages and see all of the shop built stuff and customization's to see that it should be possible to keep these things going indefinitely, or at least until we have start using them in hiding because of SawStop laws...


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[woodburner]

The popularity of the Shopsmith is still out there and is alive and well as I just recently discovered myself.

I recently did a woodturning demonstration at the end of last January for my woodturning club, and because the club lathe is a JET midi lathe and I wanted to turn a large platter, I brought along my Shopsmith. I let the membership know this through the club's newsletter and website before the meeting took place.

Most of our meetings have about 30 members show up, but this time it was standing room only with 59 members in attendance. Why? Because they all heard what I was bringing to the meeting and wanted to see the Shopsmith in action. There were members there who haven't attended a meeting for two or more years.

Because there were so many more in attendance than usual, and so many of the them hadn't been to a meeting for some time, the club's president polled those who were there why they decided to come to this particular meeting and a majority of them said they came to see my SS in operation. They also said they remembered them from years ago and hadn't seen one in several years, and were curious in seeing one in action again. Many of them said they remembered making their first woodworking projects on these machines and didn't even know some are still out there being used in today's home workshops.

Did having this many people in the audience make me nervous? Sure. But as soon as I turned my SS on, I was clearly in my element and 1 1/2 hours later a beautiful 15-inch platter emerged from that clumpy lump of sycamore I brought as my project piece.

Then the questions started, some about how I did my turning, but the majority were about the Shopsmith. Do you enjoy using it? Is it difficult to use? Can you do more than turn wood on it? Do they still make and sell them? And that big question I was waiting for (and sort of expecting): Can I come by your shop so I can see it do all the other things it is designed to do? That question was the most asked and I am now planning a sort of "Shopsmith Demo" in my shop. I have a capacity for about ten souls to watch safely and the demo is full so I am planning on doing two (so far).

No one asked me if it had any drawbacks, if it is unsafe to use, etc.. You know, all those negative comments written in woodworking forums (including some on this forum) that you read. All I had were positive feedback and comments like "I didn't know you can do that with these machines" to "You can actually take it places in your pick-up?" "What a great looking and engineered machine." You also need to know that most of these comments came from retired doctors, lawyers, etc. who now pursue woodturning as a hobby now that they are retired. Some in attendance even expressed interest in wanting to have a SS in their own shop.

Is the dream of SS ownership still alive a well? I found that to be a resounding yes. Does it cost money? Yes. And so does most other hobbies. Have you priced the cost of a single decent model train locomotive? From $200 and up (each) is the going rate for those right now. And as space is concerned, those who say you can have a bunch of stand-alone tools for the same cost as a SS never mention or factor in the cost of the space it takes to have all those machines.

Do most of these woodworking hobbiests have a 1,000 sq. foot outbuilding to put a woodshop full of stand-alone machines? No. They have attached garages like most of the rest of us here in California, where their shop has to share space with the family car, and there is no room for a lot of stand-alone tools that will be used only once in a while, where as just one Shopsmith can and will be constantly used in one of its many forms. Does owning a Shopsmith still make since 60 or so yrs. after its invention? You bet.

As for David DeCristoforo's negative comments on other forums I feel that they are probably fustrations in-bedded from his childhood memories about his father who probably, from his point of view, may have spent more time using and writing about his Shopsmith than with his son. For someone who grew-up around the SS machine he seems to be doing his best to try and distance himself from them, but I'm no psycologist.

[robinson46176]

You also need to know that most of these comments came from retired doctors, lawyers, etc. who now pursue woodturning as a hobby now that they are retired.

What a great day and experience that had to be for you (and for Shopsmith).

The line I quoted above reflects why I think the nations school systems are so stupid as to elimination of shop classes. Even today all of these many years later I am very thankful for all of the new things I was exposed to in my school shop classes. I think we are stealing from today's youth by narrowing their exposure so much. The system is stealing from them in an effort to supply the selfish wants of industry that just wants trained workers without having to spend for them themselves. We need to be preparing students as best we can for all of their lives, not just the next few years out of school...
I have used things I learned in those classes my whole life. I was more fortunate than many in regard to training as I had a father that was knowledgeable and willing to teach me everything he could. There were other problems in our relationship but I have always been thankful for his teaching. Few of my classmates had that advantage.

Speaking of the cost of a hobby... As we interact with the general public we get a lot of questions about the cost of keeping horses. My wife is in physical therapy this month for her knees and that discussion came up with the specialist (he leases a boarded horse). To answer some of his questions I ran a quick spreadsheet. It turns out that the average "active" horse owner that boards their horse and does not have land or special resources of their own will likely spend the price of a new Shopsmith Mark 7 each year on one horse...
Thankfully as a farmer my situation is a lot different than for them or I would not have 4 hay-burners to hug.


Great post...


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[ryanbp01]

Again I ask you an honest question, Would you knowing what you now know buy a new Shopsmith for nearly $4000 and Bandsaw for $544 a jointer for $489 and belt sander for $429 and three power stands for $1080 for a total of nearly $6500?
__________________

Yes, I would do it all over again. Why? I simply don't have the room for standalone machines.

BPR

[dusty]

Yes, I would do it all over again. Why? I simply don't have the room for standalone machines.

BPR

I'd have the Shopsmith solution too BUT a Mark V and three power stands is approaching the foot print of a stand alone shop.

I now have 2 Mark Vs, a ProPlaner, a Power Stand with a belt sander, a Power Station with Bandsaw, A Crafters Station with a router table, a Jointer (Mark V Mounted), a Scroll Saw (standalone), a roll around cart full of clamps and a dolly containing the wood cutoffs. I am running out of space but I have a Shopsmith. How come.