Shopsmith Forums

keakap wrote: And then some? (on the BS, which still flaps in the breeze on those eccentric stems, not so much the solid jointer).

I only ask this last thing because despite having wondered since day one I've never asked before.

Okay I have got to ask? "Flap in the breeze"??????
It seems like most of you must understand this but how does the BS flap in the breeze?
My bandsaw sits on posts that are tight fitting into the bandsaw. I then put the stem tube into the end casting support holes and tighten it. My bandsaw does not move! Sure there is a little give if I apply enough pressure but I assure you I could not describe it as flapping in the breeze. So I don't understand what is being said here.

Now he mentioned eccentric stems, is he talking about the offset stems that SS came out with to allow you to raise the headstock into drill position while the bandsaw is mounted??

If there is that much movement that the Bandsaw flaps in the breeze I would remove those first and foremost and just remove the bandsaw when I wanted to move into drill press mode.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Okay I have got to ask? "Flap in the breeze"??????
It seems like most of you must understand this but how does the BS flap in the breeze?
My bandsaw sits on posts that are tight fitting into the bandsaw. I then put the stem tube into the end casting support holes and tighten it. My bandsaw does not move! Sure there is a little give if I apply enough pressure but I assure you I could not describe it as flapping in the breeze. So I don't understand what is being said here.

Now he mentioned eccentric stems, is he talking about the offset stems that SS came out with to allow you to raise the headstock into drill position while the bandsaw is mounted??

If there is that much movement that the Bandsaw flaps in the breeze I would remove those first and foremost and just remove the bandsaw when I wanted to move into drill press mode.

I would do that too.

There seems to be at least two types of eccentrics but the one I have is not available for purchase anymore. Mine do not provide clearance from the bandsaw when raising the tubes to drill press mode.

dusty wrote:Interesting comment. Especially in this context (where there is concern about loose setscrews in the drive line).

{'comment' being the BS flapping in the breeze on those eccentric stems}

Ya know, I've always wondered about that. Seemed odd that one could one-finger the top of the BandSaw frame and easily wiggle it- a good amount- back and froth. But what the heck, I thot, there was no danger of the drive connection failing.
Then, in the fine fiddler's tradition of never letting well enough alone, I ordered the Extended Eccentric Tube set that will allow me to swing the M5 into Drill Press mode w/o removing the BS. That lasted about 2 minutes. I found myself using one hand to hold the BS table steady while using the other to push the workpiece. Flapping in the breeze went to hurricane status rather dramatically. Off came the Extendeds. I got suddenly happy with the relative minor movement of the 'stock' tubes.

But there was never a serious problem with the stock BS and the stock headstock.

Just a curiosity.

JPG40504 wrote:I think 'loose' as it applies to the coupler, is rotational(backlash).

As far as 'how far', I think almost bottoming out is preferable. I insert the spt hub into the coupler first, then move the headstock hub into the spring end. The deeper it goes the more secure it is, but I would avoid 'all the way'.
...

There must be an instruction somewhere, well remembered at least subconsciously, that says 'almost bottoming', 'cause that was what I used to use, religiously (see "flapping"), as if I were told to do so. Either that or we just think alike.
But somewhere post PP I started going to full engagement. I can't think of what it could hurt. (Tho on the other hand it doesn't seem to have helped either.)

{Oh-oh! Disclosure:} Btw, I checked again, and I think that I can feel a tiny tiny bit of that "rotational backlash" if I turn off all nearby appliances, fans, etc., wait for there to be no traffic, aircraft, neighborhood lawn mowers or leaf blowers, no current earthquakes, no breezes, nothing that could cause a false vibration reading (I haven't had a can of chili in a week in preparation).
This is grabbing the coupler with one hand and the headstock hub with whatever flesh I could fit on it with the other. Back and forth. Back and froth. There! Was that a little 'tick'? Maybe. Could this be the "loose" we were discussing?
[This is not sarcasm. There really may be something there.]
Dunno.

I'm more concerned with your bandsaw being loose... if everything is tightened down, it should not be loose! Perhaps that is where the problem is?

charlese wrote:... Even with hard pressure to fully compress the coupler spring, it still has rotational play.

Concerning how hard to push into the coupler - I usually move the headstock into the coupler with enough force to fully compress the spring. I have noticed this makes the coupler stick onto the bandsaw coupler so it must be wiggled and pulled to remove it.

My new plastic couplers fit very tightly on all hubs.

Good info. I think I can fairly state that my coupler, while not as 'loose' as your old one, is NOT as tight as your new ones.

I'm definitely ordering a new one.

robinson46176 wrote:I...n with a screw type hose clamp snugly around each end of their coupler to eliminate any "looseness"???

Just one of those loose thoughts. ...
.

Good idea. I'll go look see if I have any...

Ed in Tampa wrote:Okay I have got to ask? "Flap in the breeze"??????
It s....

Sorry Ed. Exaggeration for effect. On the other hand, my BS is NOT rock solid by any stretch of the description. I did have the newer eccentrics (for drill press use you mention) but they were completely unacceptable and came right off. [Anybody want set, for postage only?]

What I 'overstretchingly' called flapping in the breeze amounts to, for example, enough movement that when I push a (heavy) workpiece the table moves. For comparison, the jointer is solid, and most of the time the table saw is setup similarly.
I didn't use that term to denote a problem, per se. Just a fact of life, looking for and trying to eliminate possible sources of real problems.

And Yes, I do remove the BS for drill press mode. Once resolved to it, it really is not a big deal. Not too heavy, takes only seconds, reinstalls likewise, not a problem, concern or even annoyance.

heathicus wrote:I'm more concerned with your bandsaw being loose... if everything is tightened down, it should not be loose! Perhaps that is where the problem is?

Maybe time for a clarification. The "loose" thing was in reference to the coupler fitting. The "breeze flap" biness is just the amount of lateral 'play' one can observe (at the top of the bandsaw frame) while the unit is quite snugly installed and cinched down properly. "Stock" it appears to be of no real consequence and is a mere curiosity. To put it in context, I am looking for ANY thing that I'm doing wrong that may have caused any other problems.

I wouldn't characterize a 'flapping' BS as "loose", any more than I would do so for a table saw table when it is not tied to an extension table solidly. Surely we all know there is considerable "play" at least left-right to a saw table in a stand-alone configuration.
Maybe I should rather have said a "positive range of lateral motion". (But frankly, right now I don't even remember why I brought it up in the first place. It's an oddity.)

There is MORE clarification needed {coming soon to a forum near you.}. This had gotten a bit 'afield' as they say. My fault. Sorry.

keakap wrote:Maybe time for a clarification. ...
There is MORE clarification needed {coming soon to a forum near you.}. This had gotten a bit 'afield' as they say. My fault. Sorry.

My apologies. I tend to get detailed (i.e. wordy) and drift off topic.

This thread began as a warning that there is, at least with my M5, a potential and potentially serious 'situation' with the Power Pro headstock.

Note: Not the Band saw.

I just happened to be using the bandsaw when a problem showed up. I have no real problems with the Band Saw SPT, as far as I know.

But to return to the original message, a saw blade mounted securely to the HS arbor while the BS was in use came loose somehow and became a free-wheeling --, well, I'll just say free wheeling.

Noise, chatter, vibration, whatever, are symptoms or bases for a lot of discussion around the PP headstock. Is that fair to say?
I've encountered it (them) and did not persue a resolution far enough. That doesn't mean I can't relate what happened and try to prevent it happening to someone else.

The t-saw blade wouldn't have come loose if it hadn't been mounted, yes. So I will cease leaving it on when using the BS, even though it is a considerable PITA to remove it for that use. This change I can characterize as New procedure for me.

But to be clear, it is not the BS, or not it alone, that causes the chatter/vibrations. [But wholly mollie, some of the sounds that come out of that HS when BS cutting! Makes me wanna go to a slaughterhouse for some peace and quiet!]

The topic got a little carried away, with me hanging on to the leash.
Sorry 'bout that. This is NOT a thread about a BandSaw problem.
Possibly, however, the problem is most obvious as relates to BS use. (In troubleshooting methodology that is often a good place to start.)

ShopSmith, btw, is very much interested in having no one have these problems now or ever again. I should reiterate: I should have called- Phoned- them again sooner.