The Affordable HealthCare Decision

[paulmcohen]

People were calling yesterday canceling their insurance Better not get sick before it takes effect in 2014.

"companies and individuals are dropping their insurance and paying the TAX." I have heard about this but what I don't understand , even without the law, what stops a company just dropping the insurance anyway to save money. Why do they need the health-care law to drop employees insurance?

There was a tax advantage to offering health insurance over pay going back to the second world war. Since ObamaCare passed health insurance costs have risen 50% (at least here). If a company was spending $10K per employee for major medical they are now paying $15K and with all the mandates it will raise dramatically because there is no longer just major medical, they now have to pay for birth control, preventive care and many other things. So you drop the insurance pay the $95 (and increasing) penalty and give your employee a $10K-$15K raise. Future costs increase are now on the employee. For individuals if you are healthy you don't need "insurance" just pay the penalty and if you get sick then get the insurance since you are guaranteed acceptance.

If you have close to 50 employees, fire a few to get to 49 (or don't hire them) because at 50 you must provide insurance.

If this is such a good deal why are unions and major companies and several states all getting waivers or opting out?

The individuals dropping insurance are between 18-26 and could be added to parents plan if something goes wrong.

[paulmcohen]

I thought that part of the bill became effective immediately but that is not why I am posting.

With regard to those who cancel their insurance or have no insurance, who pays the doctor, the hospital, the lab, the xray technician....etc. Who pays the bills.

This same question applies to undocumented residents. I know the pat answer....the tax payer ultimately pays. But who initially writes a check and to whom to pay these bills. Somewhere along the line money changes accounts or pay checks stop coming in.

Most people aged 18-26 rarely need medical care, assuming they are ethical if they use the services they will pay the bill and it will be far less than the cost of insurance. Plus lots of places offer discounts for cash. In the past charities paid for people who could not afford to pay for their care.

[paulmcohen]

The problem is GREED and people really believing their greed is justifiable.

Greed is what got us life spans of 80+ years, greed is good. The government taking care of us is the problem. When people stopped paying for medical care themselves they stopped caring what it cost. If you had food insurance you would be buying Filet Mignon and lobster every night.

[paulmcohen]

IMHO that would be a tragedy. Yes, Ed got it right - it's all about GREED and "the devil take the hindmost".

Whatever happened to helping your fellow man?

Charity at the point of a gun is not charity. If I don't pay my taxes someone comes to my home with a gun. If I don't donate to my church, that is between me and my god.

The rest of the world benefits from the GREEDY companies that invent the drugs and medical treatments. If you remove the profit you remove the incentive to take risks developing new treatments.

If you want to see where all the advanced in medical are coming from look at Lazik, cosmetic surgery and Canadian veterinary medicine. All three don't take insurance. In Canada a human can wait 30 days for a CAT Scan and dog can get one the same without an appointment.

What is the wait time for Lazik or cosmetic surgery? None, and the facilities are way nicer then most doctors offices and orders of magnitude better then hospitals. Why? no insurance, vendors compete for my dollars.

[edflorence]

Here's a UK press article concerning the waiting period for hospital treatment after a doctors referral. Perhaps it will prove enlightening for some.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-eveni ... -1-2303371

I don't mean to start an international debate on the merits or lack thereof on government run health care, but the article does make you wonder where Obama care is taking us. Oh, if you skipped that news article, the waiting period is over four months and that goal isn't being met.

I recently heard an article on a Canadian Broadcasting Company news program about the nation-wide scandal of people bribing doctors to let them jump the line and avoid the long waits. Apparently a pretty common practice. Seems likely we could expect the same thing here eventually.

[fjimp]

I recently heard an article on a Canadian Broadcasting Company news program about the nation-wide scandal of people bribing doctors to let them jump the line and avoid the long waits. Apparently a pretty common practice. Seems likely we could expect the same thing here eventually.

Here I believe we will have to bribe our congressmen and senators, hey maybe even higher than that:eek:

[fredsheldon]

Let me see:

Universal Health Care Current Health Care System

Wait Time for Elective Procedure: Up to 2 months Up to 2 weeks
Quality of Service Good Good
Annual Cost Free $6,000-12,000
How Many Insured Everyone
How Many Not Insured 60 Million

Which one do I like ? X

[claimdude]

TANSTAAFL!
Just a few things to start with in replacing the abomination called Obamacare. Medical savings accounts, catastrophic coverage, portability, open competition and Tort Reform.
We pay cash although we are both eligible for Medicare. Dental/vision services are discounted. Dr. visits are also discounted.
Wife had a knee replaced due to an auto accident. The other driver's insurance was not enough to cover all the costs. We scrutinized every bill from the hospital and surgeon. After all bills were received and over charges were eliminated, we negotiated an over 9K discount when cash was offered.
Even dr.s and hospitals like cash.

Gene,

Well said!

Jack

[derekdarling]

Hi, Canadian here. We do have a government-run health care system up here, and it works pretty well for the most part. You have private insurance down there, and it works (and worked) pretty well for the most part.

Where the real test of a country/culture/civilisation lies is in it's treatment of the most vulnerable members.

It may be a shallow reading of the situation to say that most 'right-wing' (Republican) Americans are Christians. Well, if there are people in your community that need food, shelter, medical aid, comfort and/or visiting, then YOU should be doing something about it personally. Absent your personal efforts, your society (government) is obliged to step in and help out. After all, we are all stewards of the earth, and all its riches.

But then, I'm a Canadian.

Derek

[paulmcohen]

It may be a shallow reading of the situation to say that most 'right-wing' (Republican) Americans are Christians. Well, if there are people in your community that need food, shelter, medical aid, comfort and/or visiting, then YOU should be doing something about it personally. Absent your personal efforts, your society (government) is obliged to step in and help out. After all, we are all stewards of the earth, and all its riches.

But then, I'm a Canadian.

Derek

The government does a good job in preventing private charity from helping the most vulnerable, by over regulation. Plus even the poorest Americans have TV, cell phones and other "luxuries", and 45 million americans get food stamps (so we have overweight poor) paid for by the 50% of Americians who actually pay federal taxes.