Shopsmith Forums

Realize folks that he has a MVII fence.

Although it is operated by a lever rather than a rotating knob, the clamping action is the same as a M5/MV500.

The lever pulls the operating rod(MVII) whereas the rotating knob(M5) advances the rod into the rear clamp.

Both rely on the two springs with differing spring constants. The front clamp spring is 'weaker' than the rear clamp spring which causes the front clamp to activate first. Once the front clamp is tight, the rod begins to activate the rear clamp. The clamping parts are the same as the M5/MV500 fence.

The front clamp should contact the back edge of the front rail thus pulling the fence base tight to the front beveled edge of the rail thus aligning the fence. Then and only then should the rod exert sufficient force to move the rear clamp towards the rear edge of the table. Since the front base of the fence is tightly aligned to the rail, the rear clamp should NOT cause the fence to shift.

Finally I want to ascertain Mike that the two "bolts on the fence" are located on the bottom of the base and they secure the base to the fence main body.

Also there are three bevels that must be free of burrs etc. The front bottom edge of the front table rail. The bottom rear facing edge of the fence base. The bottom rear edge of the table. The rear clamp slips under the table edge to contact that bevel.

I belabor all this detail so as to hopefully help you discover why your fence is acting strangely. Some pix of those areas/details above may help us decipher it for you.

I looked at it quickly, and I thought both clamps moved at about the same time, but maybe the front is in fact moving just a bit prior. I will need to examine it much closer, maybe the infeed clamp is not gripping tightly before the outfeed clamp grabs? I took that apart and cleaned it up, I wonder if I somehow reversed the springs? Also not sure if the cam on the lever makes a difference, but it shows signs of wear. Yes, I do understand which two bolts tighten/align the fence, and they are basically under the cam lever on the bottom of the base that contacts the front rail.

Thanks again for all you guys do here on this website. I really appreciate it. I will try to get some pics out soon. I would love for the fence to work properly. My dad always told me to not trust the fence and measure from the miter slot at the outfeed and infeed sides to be sure.

Mike -

The "technique" in moving the fence can also play a part.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8puBVjCvqv8[/youtube]

This works for the 10E/ER fence too, but you pull out instead of pushing in, to engage the correct reference surfaces.

As I read and reread the discussion about inconsistent fence alignment I conclude that this is NOT an alignment issue at all but rather a locking issue.

If the fence has truly been aligned then holding the infeed end of the rip fencefirmly against the front rail (each and every time) should reestablish that alignment. Once there, concentrate on the outfeed end of the fence (while maintaining front rail contact) and lock the fence. It should not move.

If it moves...WHY. The locking mechanism simply squeezes the front and back table rails to facilitate the locking action.

I watched the WoodWorkWeb video, at least around the 7:40 mark and have to agreed with several others here. I don't get the point of it. If you go on his video title it implies he is going to do this for alignment and he explicitly says it is for a "crappy table saw fence" in the title. However, at around that 7:40 mark it appears to me he is creating a method to setup the tablesaw fence for a cut, NOT actual alignment. I say this because look at how long those sticks are and they are adjustable down the entire length. I do believe his intent, based on what he says, is that these are meant to set your fence at a set width for ripping. Say you want a 5" wide cut, you measure and set the fence, but then he places one of these sticks in and sets it at the front, then he puts the 2nd stick in at the back and with both of them in place he then locks his fence down with the expectation that it will be parallel to the miter slot. Okay, but what if your sawblade isn't 100% parallel to that miter slot? One complaint that I have is this will be time consuming, much faster to measure and set the fence, if everything is aligned properly. The only real advantage that I can see with this kind of setup is that is makes it easy to set a small gap at the back of the blade, e.g. to minimize the risk of kickback. If you set both sticks at the same length, but then take a feeler gauge to insert between the back one and the fence you can easily set a few thou of gap at the back of the blade for kickback mitigation.

If the tablesaw fence isn't locking properly then I would work on fixing that. Not to rehash the 510<->520 fence debates again, but that was probably the issue that I had with my 510 fence before and why I liked my 520 so much better when I got it. It is never fun to use a fence that doesn't lock properly.

I agree that this video is not directed at "aligning" the fence but rather at setting the fence a specific distance from the blade.

If you trust that the rip fence is perpendicular to the front rail, the rip fence can be used as the reference surface for table to blade alignment.

Mike, to acquire an aluminum bar that fits the MAG-DRO just buy another caliper. It doesn't even need to be a digital. The issue with all of these methods is how do you set the bar that is used with the MAG-PRO to be precisely the same length and you are limited to about 5".

Mike:

Make a hard wood miter bar about 18" long and glue it to a piece of wood. Align your table to the blade. Mount the piece of wood in the miter track and pass it through the table saw. You now have a jig for setting and aligning the table to the blade. Flip it around and align the fence.

If the table was accurately adjusted to to the blade, you now have the perfect jig to do what you are talking about.

Now about the REAR clamp. Have you ever adjusted it? It is possible that it is too tight? when the lever is 'open' how far is the rear lamp from the rear table edge? Does the lever travel until the lever reaches the top of the fence?

A simple test - place the fence and slightly skew it. Close the front clamp and it should self align before the rear clamp touches the table.

It is doubtful the springs are reversed.

I have been ignoring the sleeve(internal) that actually moves the front clamp. The lever slides the sleeve towards the upper arm of the front clamp. It is not actually only spring forces involved here.

Perhaps it is time to disassemble to determine what is going on. Wear may be a factor. I be ignoring possibility of incorrect assembly up until now.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:37 am I watched the WoodWorkWeb video, at least around the 7:40 mark and have to agreed with several others here. I don't get the point of it.

Yes, you are getting the point of the video, and you are correct.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:37 am However, at around that 7:40 mark it appears to me he is creating a method to setup the tablesaw fence for a cut, NOT actual alignment.

I apologize for using incorrect terms when saying "alignment". I'm not really sure what to call it. To me it is an alignment issue when setting up for a cut, simply measuring from the blade to the fence and locking it down is not dependable for me, and the two sticks idea could help resolve it. So that is why I want to build something similar. But now, I have a lot of items I can look more closely at to see if I can resolve the underlying issue.

I still have a lot to learn.
Thanks guys, Mike -

JPG wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:06 am A simple test - place the fence and slightly skew it. Close the front clamp and it should self align before the rear clamp touches the table.

This is not happening. It will lock askew. As the front clamp starts to engage and I can see the outfeed side start to move a bit to align the fence, but then outfeed clamp touches the far side of the table and it doesn't move anymore and will lock askew without aligning the fence if I were to force the lever.

JPG wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:06 am Perhaps it is time to disassemble to determine what is going on. Wear may be a factor. I be ignoring possibility of incorrect assembly up until now.

Yes, I will compare it to the exploded view in the parts diagram, take some pics, etc.

Thanks, Mike -