Shopsmith Forums

[quote="dusty"]No, you did not raise my feathers. I was just suggesting that since you feel so strongly about the EZ System you should promote it rather than knocking others. The best way to promote something is to spread the good word around the community]

Ok Dusty I see your point as you see it. I did not come in to say what I do or don't support it just ended up that way. Best tool for the job is how it goes no matter who makes it.

The beff was about shopsmith that I also own and them selling a knockoff or copycat version of others hard work. If they took two years to plan this one how long will it take for there next tool or copy. Thats what got me going not what I support its whats right and wrong.

Then you could ask yourself why would shopsmith go to bed with a one horse cart. I hear thats there only tool at this time more to come as they say.
Not only that then we find out why this could happen a guy named Dick comes into the light there past top seller is part of the truetrack operation dont that smell a bit.

Listen I love my shopsmith and there is only one dealer in my end of town left where I can get parts and we are lucky still a lot on ebay for us to pick from.
So yes I was concerned when shopsmith made this bad move in my books.

algale wrote:The source of information can be important when you are deciding whether the information is reliable or not. When someone claims they don't have an interest in something but it turns out they are in fact unnaturally interested in a subject or business that they claim they have no interest in, that's a factor I take into account in terms of crediting the information they have provided.

I personally think that you are playing a bit of double game here, trying to sound reasonable on this forum and then going back to the other forum and making fun of the posts on this forum. That's your right, of course.

Well it is a funny thing and you can stand behind what ever you like and I will poke fun here also If you would like. Don't you speak different to others you know and then different to those you don't. As for playing both side not that it matters I own both. I think EZ System is top shelf items and not one of there toys is a knockoff the idea yes in part. I also love my shopsmith being its bean around for so long and still kicking but in this case they are not right in my!! eyes and I stand behind that. Smithy makes a shopsmith that I think is a knockoff kinda also but get away with it dont make it right.

So to make things straight If I need to support someone I pick Dino and Eurekazone sorry If you think I'm on the fence or making fun of anything this just looks like a bad move not a smart move on shopsmith side of things.

Oh by the way I don't see a post over at eurekazone buy you so who likes to lurk where thats what I was told I do here. I guess you had nothing to say over there like me here in the past. just making a point and If you have posted over at eurekazon forgive me.

In all fairness to EZ guide when I first saw this Tracksaw I thought it was a relabeled EZ guide system. I now see some differences. Personally I would have thought patent laws would have prevented such similarily but apparently not.

As for EZ I wanted to buy one in the worst way but the I couldn't find out what I needed to order. I was ready to drop a grand or more on system but eveyone was telling me different things basically jump in and see what you want. However you only get decent discounts if you jump in big.

Then I saw EZ guide was coming to a WoodWorking Show here in Tamps so I went figuring all my questions would be answered. If you can believe it the guy at the show was far worst than the website. In fact I believe he was an ex used car salesman. All he wanted was to tell me to spend my money.

Talk about pi--ed so I wrote to Dino to tell him my experience. Big mistake, basically what I got back was Dino telling me I didn't know what I talking about and to get a life. I have since then dismissed EZ guide.

I have then waffled between Festool, Dewalt and Makita. None seem to offer all that I was looking for that Ez guide did.

I will await to see where the Tracksaw goes. If they come up with a table system as slick as EZ guide I will probably buy in. Until then I will keep using my old aluminum clamp, saw plate setup which isn't as slick but makes breaking down sheet stock a snap.

Right now if the right project comes up I will probably jump way too deep into Festool, getting a Saw, table, router, sander, and vac.

Ed in Tampa wrote:In all fairness to EZ guide when I first saw this Tracksaw I thought it was a relabeled EZ guide system. I now see some differences. Personally I would have thought patent laws would have prevented such similarily but apparently not.

As for EZ I wanted to buy one in the worst way but the I couldn't find out what I needed to order. I was ready to drop a grand or more on system but eveyone was telling me different things basically jump in and see what you want. However you only get decent discounts if you jump in big.

Then I saw EZ guide was coming to a WoodWorking Show here in Tamps so I went figuring all my questions would be answered. If you can believe it the guy at the show was far worst than the website. In fact I believe he was an ex used car salesman. All he wanted was to tell me to spend my money.

Talk about pi--ed so I wrote to Dino to tell him my experience. Big mistake, basically what I got back was Dino telling me I didn't know what I talking about and to get a life. I have since then dismissed EZ guide.

I have then waffled between Festool, Dewalt and Makita. None seem to offer all that I was looking for that Ez guide did.

I will await to see where the Tracksaw goes. If they come up with a table system as slick as EZ guide I will probably buy in. Until then I will keep using my old aluminum clamp, saw plate setup which isn't as slick but makes breaking down sheet stock a snap.

Right now if the right project comes up I will probably jump way too deep into Festool, getting a Saw, table, router, sander, and vac.

Yes Ed I understand that EZ has some problems like most small companies do. Not sure If FS was the best choice but at least you made a choice EZ is a hard place to get around and learn for sure but worth it If you take the time.

Did not know they do shows anymore must have been long ago and things change and on the site they try to save you money not spend your money where else would they tell you you don't need that Item. From what I see everyone is told to start small and go from there everything fits together as you grow. Good luck with festool they will take your money over and over again just call them and say this Item don't work right they will say Oh you need this at a cost of this to make that work right. So you pick goto where they care or goto where its all about money your choice and you made it.

algale wrote:Damagi,

Perhaps you are not an EZ fan boy but you are a member of that EZ track forum and have been giving advice/suggestions on various EZ topics....http://tracksawforum.com/search.php?sea ... 3471&pp=25

Perhaps there are two sides to the story. If so, I hope the TrueTrack folks will speak up here.

My interest was piqued a while back about the EZ system for many of the same reasons why the shopsmith one would be interesting. If you look at my post here on the topic, I fully disclosed that I owned some of the EZ stuff. Nothing to hide here. Also, if you look at the actual posts over there (there are only 26 of them, so it won't take long), there is nothing inflamatory, fan-boy-ish, or anything promoting one thing or another. I figured that disclosing ownership, combined with my low post count (and rather benign content as well), was sufficient disclosure.

I tried to make it clear in previous posts, but will attempt to do so again: I like shopsmith stuff, and I want to see them around for a long time in the future. I also have a personal preference towards things which are interchangable whenever possible such that additions (in terms of hardware) tend to have a large aggregate change to potential capabilities. Proprietary tools have their place, and I am definitely a fan of innovation. However, being a software developer by day I am very keen on the concept of backwards compatibility, upgrade stories, compatibility to standards and competitors, etc.

Further, duplicate tools usually is an indication of wasted potential. Its a fine line between competition and copying. I'm not judging whether the truetrac is a copy or not, but I am really interested in learning whether the "breaking" changes that they made to the circular saw on a base type setup really represent positive change, or simply vendor-lock-in.

Taking it at a high level, if the true-trac was compatible with other shopsmith stuff because the channels in it were the special shopsmith size, then that would make more sense to me. That way your true-trac could use all the shopsmith stuff that you have aggregated over the years. consider things like sliding the miter pro into the bottom slot of the true-trac for precise angle cuts or whatnot...or perhaps doing the same with the miter guage. that would have made real sense, especially since the miter guage setting could be left unchanged going from shopsmith to track and back.

I agree - definitely two sides to every story.

To me a guide track system is the perfect complement to SS. One of the SS weaknesses is sawing due to lack of a tilting arbor and using the table height to adjust depth of cut. Not big weaknesses but a weakness just the same.

To me a guided track system is safe easy way to cut wood, sheet products or solid stock. You can joint with it, you can taper cut with it, you can rip or crosscut and you can bevel cut.

Plus

You can store it in virtually the same space you store your SS.

With the added advantage that to cut a piece of wood you don't need anymore space than slightly more than the wood itself takes. Unlike on the SS you must have at least as much space on in feed side and out feed side as the length of cut or of the wood.

So for space conscious people which most SS owners are the guided saw system makes sense. Add to it things like both Ez guided and Festool do like guided router, guided planer and it all makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is why SS didn't go to EZ guide and do a deal. Perhaps they did and Ez guide wouldn't play with them.

In any case I think the whole concept is new move in cuttting wood. I know many commercial shops have moved to the guided tools system rather than to more costly options to keep their insurance. One company a laminate supplier told me that the Festool system allowed them to meet all safety and air quality rules and allowed them to sell a Panel saw, two table saws both Unisaws and a 12 inch radial arm and a huge dust collector.

What he got for the Unisaws paid for Festools and the panel saw $35,000 model was jungles in his pocket.

That even after a year his employees still fight over who gets to make the cuts and no accidents.

It makes sense. No more lifting and trying to manage huge sheet stock, cut quality equal to of better than what they were getting, and higher production rates.

bigjohn1 wrote:
Oh by the way I don't see a post over at eurekazone buy you so who likes to lurk where thats what I was told I do here. I guess you had nothing to say over there like me here in the past. just making a point and If you have posted over at eurekazon forgive me.

Big difference: I haven't posted at EZ because (1) I didn't know EZ or the forum existed until 24 hours ago, (2) I have no intention of joining a forum for a product I don't own and don't intend to own (I also don't intend to own a TrueTrack or other track saw) and (3) if I did, I wouldn't join the forum just to wait however long it took for them to launch their next product over and then rant about its shortcomings (if any) before I had handled the product and claim they are shady businessmen because their product was supposedly not a 100% new innovation/invention.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I disagree with the premise that people can't try to improve upon existing designs unless it infringes someone's patent. Otherwise we'd all still be driving black Model T Fords. Or using Festool tracksaws....

algale wrote:Big difference: I haven't posted at EZ because (1) I didn't know EZ or the forum existed until 24 hours ago, (2) I have no intention of joining a forum for a product I don't own and don't intend to own (I also don't intend to own a TrueTrack or other track saw) and (3) if I did, I wouldn't join the forum just to wait however long it took for them to launch their next product over and then rant about its shortcomings (if any) before I had handled the product and claim they are shady businessmen because their product was supposedly not a 100% new innovation/invention.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I disagree with the premise that people can't try to improve upon existing designs unless it infringes someone's patent. Otherwise we'd all still be driving black Model T Fords. Or using Festool tracksaws....

First off I really dont care what you would have done or would not have done you make me sound like I did something wrong. Second not using or owning a EZ system is your loss and not knowing it has been around for more then ten years well then I would say you don't get out mutch or look around this big world of
woodworking I say this because I don't see why you are jumping on my back when I have a good reason for this complaint and can only tell me I have been lurking around getting ready to pounce this thought is just crazy in its self. Why I have not been hagging around here is because I can't buy from the USA company and really don't want to pay the price for some of the new Items. I do think some of the videos and maintenance info is done very well. You may not like what I have to say or even how I have done it but I did not bring up your Nic or handle here and spirt off like I don't know what I'm talking about and must be paid to cause a problem. Maybe not you with all of that but you sure thing I'm in the wrong this was just a heads up for some of the shady things that go on to make a buck some other may like to know this and If not turn the channel thats your right you don't have to listen. Plus no harm with a little mud slinging is there movies are made of it.
When this track is gone by the roadside remember I said it first. One tool company and they don't even have a web site yet do they? Don't that wave flags to all you flag watchers. I came in to tell SS shame on them and yes without the info can see why some would be upset with me. How can you guys stand by them and what they say with just one video and an ad from a trade show don't you wonder why SS would back or partener with a tool maker no one has heard of or even has a web page in this day and age. And you think I stink the joint out look again I'm done with this in any case judge for yourself.

Other than the spammers, I rarely find it necessary to moderate the forum. I plan to maintain that approach, so I'm asking that we get back to discussing the pro's and con's of products and scale back the attacks on each other.

We want the forums to be a pleasant place where we can all learn more about making sawdust.

Thank You
Admin

admin wrote:Other than the spammers, I rarely find it necessary to moderate the forum. I plan to maintain that approach, so I'm asking that we get back to discussing the pro's and con's of products and scale back the attacks on each other.

We want the forums to be a pleasant place where we can all learn more about making sawdust.

Thank You
Admin

Ok admin sorry for my part will let the lawyers deal with it and what ever happens I thought you would be knocking soon take care. John.....