Some Shopsmith history (Kinda)

[Ed in Tampa]

Yes, I would do it all over again. Why? I simply don't have the room for standalone machines.

BPR

Exactly!

But what if room was not a constraint? Would you then buy the SS or go for the standalones? Again remember we aren't talking $200 craiglist specials but rather full price $6500 setups.

[dusty]

But if I had the space and the money, I would have a shop that would make everyone droll, even Norm. Somewhere in that humongous shop would be all of my Shopsmith gear - ready to use.

The center piece of this hypothetical shop would be a Delta Unisaw with a huge table wrapped all around it. That table would be a perfectly flat extension of the Unisaw table. There will be no SawStop.

Standalone everything - jointer, planer, belt sander, drill press - you name it.

But until I have more money in the bank than I have already spent in this life time - I am very satisfied with my current work shop. However, I do wish it was detached so the the house was not so exposed to saw dust.

[JPG]

Exactly!

But what if room was not a constraint? Would you then buy the SS or go for the standalones? Again remember we aren't talking $200 craiglist specials but rather full price $6500 setups.

Hmm! I eagerly await with great anticipation the response to that question from a certain country gentleman from east(slightly) central Indiana!:D

[robinson46176]

Hmm! I eagerly await with great anticipation the response to that question from a certain country gentleman from east(slightly) central Indiana!:D

See my post on the other Ed's thread about how many combinations...


.

[woodburner]

Thanks for the post Farmer. I had a great time that day and hope to do it again soon. I would like to demo on how I take raw material, cut it down to pen blanks, drill the blanks, then turn, sand and finish the blanks and come out with a couple dozen finished pens in two hours, just using my Shopsmith. I think that will be killer to do. I also agree that today's students are missing out on the shop classes that I was able to take. Hell, I was welding in the 8th grade. I don't know any 8th grader now who says he can do that. I am glad that the Future Farmers program is still alive and well in my part of CA as they do have shop classes for those students.

To answer Ed's question, I would, and still do, buy new Shopsmith equipment and if space was no problem, yes I will still buy Shopsmith.

The question Ed proposes lacks a few other things to consider when purchasing stand-alones and the cost which he quotes as $6,500. He fails to add the cost of wiring a shop for all those seperate machines, a dust collection system for all the machines, storage cabinets etc. to store all the extra parts and accessories, the cost of maintaining an army of stand-alones, the list goes on. Another words, Ed failed to factor in the cost of making all these tools operational. If you add all these things on top of the $6,500 quoted by Ed then yes, if you purchased brand new Shopsmith equipment from the company today, right this minute, the Shopsmith equipment will still cost less than stand-alone tools. And don't forget to factor in quality. Quality costs money, and Shopsmith has quality.

I'm also wondering why he's figuring in the cost of three seperate power stations when you do not need them as the Shopsmith Mark V will run all the SPT's without extra power stations. Maybe he is just trying to justify his question by adding more cost to it than is actually needed to buy a new Shopsmith system. Also, if you leave out the SPT's the Shopsmith still does five operations needed for basic woodworking. A new Shopsmith Mark V or Mark VII does not cost $6,500, subtract around $2,000-$3,000 from what Ed quoted and then you have the actual cost, and you have a tool that will do five woodworking operations.

Most woodworkers do not purchase a shop full of brand new tools, stand-alone or not, right off the bat. They work their way into it, purchasing what they need as time goes by and the kind of projects they want to create. This goes for Shopsmith users as well as stand-alone users. Because of this, I'm sure most Shopsmith owners will eventually purchase $6,500 or more in Shopsmith equipment, but so will the woodworker with stand-alone tools.

To sum this up, I think this question can be answered as many different ways as there are woodworkers, and this is just my humble opinion. I'm sure there has always been some kind of competition between woodworkers as to who has the better tools, and whether using combo machines, stand-alone machines, etc. make you a better wooworker. I'm sure the woodworkers who use only hand tools think those of us with power tools are not true woodworkers. If you are interested, this is how I sum up all this debate, "Whether you own Shopsmith tools, stand-alone tools, hand tools, spent a fortune on your tools or just $10.00, it is not the tools that make the better woodworker. It is the time, craftmanship and quality you put into your woodworking that really counts."

Case closed .

[ryanbp01]

Exactly!

But what if room was not a constraint? Would you then buy the SS or go for the standalones? Again remember we aren't talking $200 craiglist specials but rather full price $6500 setups.

After giving this some thought, My answer would still be yes since I would have more room to work, plus keep all of the wood located in the same space as well. With the exception of the joiner and planer, the SPTs are light enough to lift and I really don't mind doing the changeovers. I really like the aspect of having a woodworking system in fact as well as in name! Therefore I would not bother with standalones.

BPR

[Ed in Tampa]

Most woodworkers do not purchase a shop full of brand new tools, stand-alone or not, right off the bat. They work their way into it, purchasing what they need as time goes by and the kind of projects they want to create. This goes for Shopsmith users as well as stand-alone users. Because of this, I'm sure most Shopsmith owners will eventually purchase $6,500 or more in Shopsmith equipment, but so will the woodworker with stand-alone tools.

"Most woodworkers do not purchase a shop full of brand new tools...right off the bat."

You are 100% correct!

Now we come to the real issue. You are a new woodworker, you have a little experience and you know your way around the shop. You want to buy your first piece of woodworking equipment.

You go to the store and look table saws. For good sound units you see them priced from around $500 up to $2000. Yes Dusty I know you want a 5hp full set up unisaw for $3000+, but in all fairness this guy just wants a good table saw.
Then he sees an ad for a Shopsmith at $3500+. What do most guys do?

They buy a saw perhaps for around $900 now they have the saw and over the years they add to their shop as money becomes available.

There lies the problem with Shopsmith. It is too expensive for the guy that is just starting setup his shop.

When I bought my SS the cost was around $1200. However a delta contractor saw belt drive would cost me about $700. I knew I also wanted drill press and a lathe to play with. The drill press at the time was around $200 and as was the lathe. So for $1100 I would have what I wanted or I could buy the SS for $100 more and have other tools. At the time the decision was easy.

Today I would buy the $1000 tablesaw, $450 drill press and $500 lathe and wonder why anyone would spend $3500 for a shopsmith.

If I was really just starting out I would probably buy a $600 Ridgid/Sears/Grizzly/Porter Cable/Jet tablesaw and perhaps later upgrade it with a better fence. That $600 is a long long way from the $3500 Shopsmith is asking the first time buyer to spend.

[dusty]

"Most woodworkers do not purchase a shop full of brand new tools...right off the bat."

You are 100% correct!

Now we come to the real issue. You are a new woodworker, you have a little experience and you know your way around the shop. You want to buy your first piece of woodworking equipment.

You go to the store and look table saws. For good sound units you see them priced from around $500 up to $2000. Yes Dusty I know you want a 5hp full set up unisaw for $3000+, but in all fairness this guy just wants a good table saw.
Then he sees an ad for a Shopsmith at $3500+. What do most guys do?

They buy a saw perhaps for around $900 now they have the saw and over the years they add to their shop as money becomes available.

There lies the problem with Shopsmith. It is too expensive for the guy that is just starting setup his shop.

When I bought my SS the cost was around $1200. However a delta contractor saw belt drive would cost me about $700. I knew I also wanted drill press and a lathe to play with. The drill press at the time was around $200 and as was the lathe. So for $1100 I would have what I wanted or I could buy the SS for $100 more and have other tools. At the time the decision was easy.

Today I would buy the $1000 tablesaw, $450 drill press and $500 lathe and wonder why anyone would spend $3500 for a shopsmith.

If I was really just starting out I would probably buy a $600 Ridgid/Sears/Grizzly/Porter Cable/Jet tablesaw and perhaps later upgrade it with a better fence. That $600 is a long long way from the $3500 Shopsmith is asking the first time buyer to spend.

Ed, if you are going to carry on this discussion - do it in today's dollars. Don't compare yesterdays costs with todays cost figure.

The $1200 that you spent when you bought your Mark V is more like $3000 in today's dollars. BTW, did you not get a bandsaw or dust collector along with that Mark V for $1200.

Another observation: After spending that $600 all you would be able to do is cut up large pieces of wood to make smaller pieces of wood. No drill, no sander, no lathe etc.

[woodburner]

Seems Ed just doesn't want to let this one go. Just compare the five operations a Mark V can do to having five stand-alone tools that do the same thing.

Can you buy the same for less?? Sure you can if you shop around and find the cheaper quality seperate tools. If are hoping to have quality in your tools, then Shopsmith is the better priced.

A quality table saw: $800-$1,000, a quality lathe: $1,500-$2,000, a quality drill press: $600-$800, a quality disc sander: $500, and a quality horizontal boring machine: lucky if you can find one at any decent price. These prices also do not include the extra accessories that Shopsmith includes either. On the low end of the list I compiled: $3,400, and that doesn't include the cost of a horizontal boring machine.

Ed, you cannot compare just buying a table saw to buying a Shopmith. Give it up.

[fjimp]

As a young husband and father forty years ago I was introduced to Shopsmith at a home show in Denver. I do not remember the price quoted. I do remember being totally impressed and desiring one. The issue was we had far too many places our money needed to be spent. No I did not buy one until over 30 years later. Between those times I purchased a number of single purpose tools. None of them hold a candle to the Shopsmith. Most were sold when I finally did purchase the shopsmith. Do I desire a fancy table saw, no way. I have found my current set up works well and leaves me space for the tools I really enjoy and use daily. As much as I use and enjoy my shopsmith tools I have to admit they are not the only tools I own or use. One of my favorite tools is a really nice Jet lathe which is where I do most of my turning. Yes I have used the Shopsmith for turning and it does a fine job and yes I do occassionally use the shopsmith for turning larger items. The Jet is really quiet and keeps my Shopsmith's free for other uses. I generally have multiple projects going on and find turning relaxing while figuring out the next focus of a day or project. Incidentally I am not a person who builds things from plans or templates. I design my own stuff. Would I focus most of my woodworking equipment around Shopsmith again and do I feel the tools worth the price, YES WITHOUT QUESTION. Jim