Table Saw Blades

[algale]

I guess that settles it!

[bobgroh]

Most of my blades (5/8 inch arbor variety) are Freud. Been pleased with the performance and they are readily available even at my local big box store. I did have one lose a tooth but that might have been my fault.

[stephen_a._draper]

I am getting everything back in new condition in my shop. That includes carbide tipped blade sharpening. I sent my 24 tooth Shopsmith rip blade and 60 tooth Shopsmith crosscut blade to Forrest Manufacturing for sharpening. They will sharpen any brand of blade the same way they sharpen their own blades. I bought mine 20 years ago from Shopsmith and they are 1 1/4" arbor, 1/8 inch kerf. Forrest is replacing one carbide tip, sharpening them, and doing a test cut with the blades. Cost is $63 plus $15 return shipping. It cost me $20 to ship them in so for $98 I will have blades better than new since Forrest does such superb sharpening. They have never been sharpened since I bought them.

Additionally, my Shopsmith crosscut blade has triple chip grind. The cut is smoother than ATB which is what I believe the current Shopsmith version is. You also get a smoother cut in plywood as well as less frequent sharpening. Unfortunately Shopsmith no longer sells this blade.

[kkoyle]

I think this has been the longest and most informative discussion I have seen in these forums. Thanks, everybody! Who knew there could be so much passion about saw blades?
I'd like to take it back to a more basic question - arbor size. Doug Reid says in one of his YouTube videos that the reason Shopsmith has stuck with the 1-1/4" arbor is because it provides more stability for the blade. Everyone here seems to have switched over to the 5/8" arbor, which I suppose is a necessity if you are going to buy most non-SS blades (other than a select few who still offer the bigger arbor size at a bigger price). So, is there any benefit to the 1-1/4" arbor, or is it best just to buy the SS 5/8" one and increase my flexibility in blade shopping? If there is no real benefit to the 1-1/4" arbor, why has SS stuck with it for so long?

Thanks again for the great discussion!

Ken

[dusty]

I feel that the design characteristics of the 5/8" arbor are a bit cumbersome. The 1 1/4" arbor is designed to fir comfortably on the Shopsmith, with the lower saw guard and with the table.

I do have one 1/4" arbor but I use it only when my blade selection dictates.

Does one vibrate more than the other? I have not noticed.

Is the increasing popularity of the 5/8" arbor (if this really happening) the result of there being more inexpensive blades available? I sorta think so.

No! I'll stick with my collection of Shopsmith blades and 1 1/4" arbors.

[reible]

I long ago parted with the larger arbor blades.

Back in 1976 we still had steel blades and perhaps at that time there was a stability issue that was helped. As the price of good carbide blades came down and the quality of blades improved such that I stopped using the old style blades and never looked back.

I did my own testing and at least in the early to mid 1980's I had a couple of shopsmiths own blades and when I compared the cuts from the two hub sizes I could not see any difference, I could not measure any differences so if there were any improvements or detriments they were lost in the wood.

Before having a shopsmith I had blade stiffeners that I used on my rockwell table saw, again that was with the old steel blades and they did seem to help. I used them for a while on the shopsmith too. Without looking I believe they were either 3 or 3-1/2 ones, much more then the arbors have. But again with the newer blades they did not seem to make that much if any difference in cutting. They did how ever mess up the alignment of the guards, by then I had upgrade my guard system to the plastic version.

I had a few issues with some shopsmith blades loosing teeth for no apparent reason in the 80's and have since started using other blades. I'm perfectly happy with the infinity blades I know buy they have given me excellent results. All the blades I have purchased from the late 1980's on are all 5/8" arbor blades.

The improvement is saw blades has been impressive. From the old stamped steel blades to the carbide to the laser cut and dampening and heat resistant coatings...... I just have not observed any benefit to the larger arbor.

Here is a picture of the two arbors for the 520, note the overall dimensions of the flange that supports the blade are the same(see red arrows). You actually have more contact area on the 5/8" arbor if that means anything.

IMG_3900smc.jpg (173.88 KiB) Viewed 11819 times

I personally can not observe any reason to use the larger arbor on the shopsmith, perhaps once but no longer. I'm not sure why then sell them except it gives them having people come to them for the odd size arbor blades????

Any way this is how I see it. Others may have found other reasons to stay with the larger arbor I just don't think it is for better performance.

Ed

[dusty]

It probably makes no difference to me. I have the saw blades that I am going to need. I may need to get them sharpened a time or two but that is it. With that outlook, it makes little difference to me.

However, as stated earlier, I have one 5/8" arbor for that occasion where I cannot do the job with a 1 1/4" (dado blade comes to mind). Other than that, I will stick with my 1 1/4" blades.

Other than availability of replacements, I see no advantage in using the 5/8" arbor.

Enough said.

[shopsmithpaul]

I guess I will put in my two cents worth of info/opinion. First I just ordered the saw blade package with arbors for $194. Not a bad deal if you are looking for a set of blades AND arbors. Another clue that CMT makes SS blades is the shape of the antivibration/noise dampening laser cuts in the blade body.(same as CMT) I am interested to see if the tooth geometry is the same as well. I also like the thin kerf design. As per arbor hole size I don't think there is any difference in stability.

One thing not mentioned here that I could see is the use of blade stiffeners. A 4 inch stiffener really helps with thin kerf blades. I have used them also on all kinds of different table saws and blades over the years and they do improve the cut. I am not sure if I can still use one with the 1-1/4 inch arbor because it will need to go between lower guard and blade. I didn't think about that till after ordering the blades and stiffeners.

As for the glue line discussion here is my understanding. The bond between glue and wood actually happens at the atomic level and is called I believe spacific adhesion where the atomic structure interlaces. If you got two surfaces truly flat they could in some aspacts stick togeather without glue.

So from there we go to how the wood is cut by the blade.The actual best cut is from a hand plane do to the shearing action of the cutting edge angle to the wood. Thus the ability to achieve ribbons of wood. The next closest is the jointer but because of the circular rotation you don't get the ribbon. Saw blades on the other hand actually scape the fibers on the edges due to the face of saw tooth being 90 degrees to the edge being glued.

So in conclusion hand planing is the best if a flat surface is achieved. Most of us, myself included, never learned how to do that effectivly and efficiently. That leaves us with the other alernatives, and with todays slightly elastic PVA glues it really problably does not matter as long as the glue surface is straight an relatively smooth which is achieved with sharp blades and good alignment on saws and jointers.

[masonsailor2]

I agree with you Dusty concerning the 1 1/4 bore. The 1 1/4 bore seems to work better with the machine. One of the issues may be that when using the 5/8 bore adapter the blade is further away from the headstock which would magnify any issues with the blade or quill. I have a lot of blades left over from my cabinet shop days which are Freud, Amana and the SS blades. For me they all work well for their intended purpose. I had many of them bored out to 1 1/4 for the SS. I just recently picked up two Tenryu blades but have not had a chance to really use them yet. One was a 12" standard kerf combo blade that I had bored out to 1 1/4 for the SS and the other a 10" combo standard kerf 5/8 bore for the big TS. Having different blades for different materials means changing blades more often but will give better results. A good example is using a triple chip blade for cutting plywood veneers. When cross cutting veneers they give the very best cut with no tearout. A planer blade will give the best edge ripping hardwoods. With all that said the blade I keep on the SS with the cross cut sled is still the SS carbide combo blade. It performs as well as any blade I have tried for a general purpose blade.
Paul

[reible]

"The 1 1/4 bore seems to work better with the machine. One of the issues may be that when using the 5/8 bore adapter the blade is further away from the headstock which would magnify any issues with the blade or quill."

This is NOT true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The blade position with either of the arbors is the same. The reference surfaces are different by the width of a blade but the location of the center line of the blades are the same.......

If you are seeing a difference then you have the wrong arbors in use.

IMG_3903smc.jpg (206.48 KiB) Viewed 11809 times

Ed