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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:06 am
by dusty
heathicus wrote:I''m not an expert here (I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I don't think the solution is that picky to the type of soda. In fact, you could use SALT in the solution and have success at removing rust. The problem with salt is that it's also corrosive to the
good metal and can generate a toxic chlorine gas.
From
this site:
I also wonder if the properties of the water effects the process? With other factors kept at a constant, would you see a difference using distilled water vs tap water? Hard water vs soft water? If so, would it be enough to fret over?
Personally, I think these variables - exact brand/type of soda, qualities of water, specifics of the electrical current - should only be fretted over if what you're cleaning/restoring is a very valuable or priceless artifact. Otherwise, it's all just personal preference and there's no reason not to experiment with tweaking some of the variables. So have at it, Dusty! Thanks for testing the current with and without the soda added and posting your results. I had been curious about that myself, but didn't take the time to experiment that much when I had my tank running.
Thank you, thank you. You have rescued me. SWMBO had me dusting my computer area because she caught me sitting here doing "nothing". Actually I was watching the shuttle return...only two more of those to watch.
The Soda Experiment...came into existence because I had time on my hands and was bored. However, even though my restrictions on physical activities have been removed, I now must complete this experiment.
1. Will the use of the RIGHT SODA make a difference?
2. Can this be done using a 5 volt supply?
3. Will an increase in current occur with the RIGHT SODA?
4. Will a large soda bath alter the results? We already know that a large tub, with tubes for example, will work but were there any test parameters changed to make that true?
5. Can I do the same thing by dumping a box of soda in the pool and electrifying it?
(KIDDY POOL not swimming pool)
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:20 am
by mickyd
dusty wrote:Thank you, thank you. You have rescued me. SWMBO had me dusting my computer area because she caught me sitting here doing "nothing". Actually I was watching the shuttle return...only two more of those to watch.
The Soda Experiment...came into existence because I had time on my hands and was bored. However, even though my restrictions on physical activities have been removed, I now must complete this experiment.
1. Will the use of the RIGHT SODA make a difference?
2. Can this be done using a 5 volt supply?
3. Will an increase in current occur with the RIGHT SODA?
4. Will a large soda bath alter the results? We already know that a large tub, with tubes for example, will work but were there any test parameters changed to make that true?
5. Can I do the same thing by dumping a box of soda in the pool and electrifying it?
(KIDDY POOL not swimming pool)
My predictions.....
1. Baking soda, washing soda, your laundry detergent with activated baking soda will all yield similar results, assuming 1T per gallon of the sodium carbonate / bicarbonate.
2. Yes......and with even less voltage. Will take a little longer than 12V.
3. Insignificant assuming the 1T soda per gallon. (don't know how much of your laundry detergent will yield 1T of the baking soda that is in it.)
4. Large soda bath works fine.
5. Kiddy pool will work fine. Check out the size of the tank that
this trailer is being derusted in.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:47 am
by dusty
Thanks for that post, Mike. Boy, you really reduced my work load. This completed trailer, done by electrolysis, certainly proves that it "can be done".
I did notice though the it wasn't 12 volts at 3 amps doing the work! I don't think I want to be involved with 80+ amps flowing in a pool of water. BUT, if I ever have something that big to de-rust I know how it can be done.
Hmm...wonder where he dumped all that crud?
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:52 am
by beeg
dusty wrote:
Hmm...wonder where he dumped all that crud?
Probably on the lawn.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:39 pm
by dusty
My experiment with the RIGHT SODA will just have to wait awhile. I just came back from a long search for Arm and Hammer Washing Soda. The two ACE stores in my general area all have a place for it on the shelves (an empty space that is). Lowe's, Home Depot and three grocery stores have what I am already using (WRONG SODA) but no WASHING SODA.
The trip was not wasted. I got a container that is deep enough to de-rust a headstock. I don't have a rusty headstock but I have a tub big enough to de-rust it if I ever do.
Given these road blocks - the next test will be to determine if the current changes (and how much) if the size of the rusty item changes. I have a couple ammunition boxes that I want to clean up.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:00 pm
by dusty
The electrolysis process is underway once again. This time on an old ammunition box that got left in the same leaky shed.
Once cleaned up I'm going to use it for my "Woodshop Piggy Bank". I'll deposit ALL of my pocket change each time I come home from any sort of shopping trip. This will result in a "slow draw" that will likely go completely unnoticed.
OBSERVATIONS:
1. The tub is bigger; holds twice as much water.
2. The rusty item is BIGGER.
3. The same power supply is outputting a lower voltage level (10.556 volts).
4. More current is being drawn (3.95 amps).
5. WRONG SODA [ACE is supposed to have the right stuff tomorrow]
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:26 pm
by JPG
What appears to be 'suds' is a surprise! Is this because of the 'wrong' product, or are you getting that much bubbling?
You will need to move/rotate the box to get it working on both inside and outside and all sides. It does work around corners somewhat, but the further from straight line, the slower it works.
Nice meters! Really like the simpson! Do not drop it!!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:12 pm
by dusty
JPG40504 wrote:What appears to be 'suds' is a surprise! Is this because of the 'wrong' product, or are you getting that much bubbling?
You will need to move/rotate the box to get it working on both inside and outside and all sides. It does work around corners somewhat, but the further from straight line, the slower it works.
Nice meters! Really like the simpson! Do not drop it!!!!
The Simpson is a nice meter but it has a couple functions that I can not figure out how to use. This particular model was designed for use on the railroads. It supports rail signaling somehow.
Notice the four modes on the left side of the select switch (X100, Set100, Fast and Slow) - all mysteries to me.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:28 pm
by mickyd
dusty wrote:The electrolysis process is underway once again. This time on an old ammunition box that got left in the same leaky shed.
Once cleaned up I'm going to use it for my "Woodshop Piggy Bank". I'll deposit ALL of my pocket change each time I come home from any sort of shopping trip. This will result in a "slow draw" that will likely go completely unnoticed.
OBSERVATIONS:
1. The tub is bigger]
What are you using for your anode(s)?
What's the ratio of laundry detergent to H20?
You'll notice that the amperage will drop after several hours to somewhere around 1-2 amps (at least that's what happens with my battery charger).
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:26 pm
by dusty
mickyd wrote:What are you using for your anode(s)?
What's the ratio of laundry detergent to H20?
You'll notice that the amperage will drop after several hours to somewhere around 1-2 amps (at least that's what happens with my battery charger).
Anodes? I have only one unless to which you refer is the rusty item. Right now the positive lead is connected to a piece of flat iron that is about 5"x7".
The other lead is connected via the ammeter to the item being treated (the rusted ammunition box lid).
I mixed the WRONG SODA on a ratio of 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. The container would hold 58 quarts (14.5 gal) of water. I used 1 cup of WRONG SODA . A bit strong since the container is not full to the brim but close.
The amperage does tend to go down with time but I am not certain why. I have concluded that it is not a direct indicator of progress.
CAUTION: Don't stick your finger in the bubbles. They have something to do with the current. Really dumb, especially for someone who has worked on hot circuits for most of his life.