A little challenge

algale · Post by **algale** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:22 pm

dusty wrote:This comment serves to resurface a question that I have long had. Why not just leave the lower saw guard set with a wide opening? What is lost by doing that?

Please! If you think that it changes the efficiency of dust collection, you'll have to convince me. Others have told me that is why it is adjustable.

You can't leave it wide open and tilt to 45.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:22 pm

algale wrote:You can't leave it wide open and tilt to 45.

OKAY, close it as far as it will go or set it somewhere in between.

BTW Do you all tilt the table a lot or does that become necessary only on occasion?

algale · Post by **algale** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:33 pm

dusty wrote:OKAY, close it as far as it will go or set it somewhere in between.

BTW Do you all tilt the table a lot or does that become necessary only on occasion?

Only on occasion.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:46 pm

I've been following this thread for a while now and you are drawing me in. I should be back South soon and be back to my 510 as my main (only) table saw.
I did mention way back on this thread that I don't get very much sawdust escapement which I attribute to my higher CFM dust collector but I get enough to want to improve it if I can.
Here's my outside the box thought:
Given that Dusty and others have about got the answer at 90 degrees, I'm thinking .... Let's leave the table at 90 degrees and work on an accurate adjustable angled sled or adjustable angled fixed jig to accommodate the problem of making beveled cuts. Such a rig would go a long way to defeat the biggest problems with outfeed tables as well.

Just a thought but I have Sketchup and time on my hands right now so maybe I'll play with the idea.

Paul M

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:17 pm

shipwright wrote:I've been following this thread for a while now and you are drawing me in. I should be back South soon and be back to my 510 as my main (only) table saw.
I did mention way back on this thread that I don't get very much sawdust escapement which I attribute to my higher CFM dust collector but I get enough to want to improve it if I can.
Here's my outside the box thought:
Given that Dusty and others have about got the answer at 90 degrees, I'm thinking .... Let's leave the table at 90 degrees and work on an accurate adjustable angled sled or adjustable angled fixed jig to accommodate the problem of making beveled cuts. Such a rig would go a long way to defeat the biggest problems with outfeed tables as well.

Just a thought but I have Sketchup and time on my hands right now so maybe I'll play with the idea.

Paul M

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

BigSky · Post by **BigSky** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:45 am

I am also looking forward to whatever comes from this thread. My dust collection capabilities could definitely be improved.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:34 pm

After a little more thought the sled / jig idea,while it does have some merit, is no answer to this problem because:

1) First and foremost, it can only be used to bevel an edge. It can't make an angled cut in the center of a board.
2) I don't think you could use it with the guard on. I'm not sure because I'm not a guard user and don't know the exact geometry of how they work on SS.
3) You still have gravity working against you (as with the tilting table) so no improvement.
4) A sled would limit the length of the piece being cut and a fixed jig would require an elaborate setup of feather boards etc to control a long piece.

Now that I've thoroughly trashed my brilliant idea, here's where it came from and where it is useful.

I've used a couple of different sleds to great advantage to make safe, accurate and repeated 45 degree cuts for box making.

1) The pieces are short enough to fit in / on the sled and can be clamped there so I don't have to get close to the blade.
2) I'm only beveling the edge of a "square to dimension" piece.

Conclusion:
I don't think it's worth making an adjustable one but the use of a fixed angle sled (or ramp mounted in an existing sled) can be advantageous for some repetitive operations and would allow those cuts to be made with Dusty's adaptation. If you make lots of boxes with square mitered corners, one of these kind of things would be worth making.

Here's the one I used to make my Oops! box. It was a large piece so this was a better way to go. For smaller ones I have a more standard sled with a removable ramp at 45 degrees.

[ATTACH]23146[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]23147[/ATTACH]

When I get down to AZ and my 510 I may give the idea some more thought but really if it is really a bother to you, a higher CFM dust collector makes a lot of difference IMHO.

Paul M

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:26 pm

shipwright wrote:After a little more thought the sled / jig idea,while it does have some merit, is no answer to this problem because:

1) First and foremost, it can only be used to bevel an edge. It can't make an angled cut in the center of a board.
2) I don't think you could use it with the guard on. I'm not sure because I'm not a guard user and don't know the exact geometry of how they work on SS.
3) You still have gravity working against you (as with the tilting table) so no improvement.
4) A sled would limit the length of the piece being cut and a fixed jig would require an elaborate setup of feather boards etc to control a long piece.

Now that I've thoroughly trashed my brilliant idea, here's where it came from and where it is useful.

I've used a couple of different sleds to great advantage to make safe, accurate and repeated 45 degree cuts for box making.

1) The pieces are short enough to fit in / on the sled and can be clamped there so I don't have to get close to the blade.
2) I'm only beveling the edge of a "square to dimension" piece.

Conclusion:
I don't think it's worth making an adjustable one but the use of a fixed angle sled (or ramp mounted in an existing sled) can be advantageous for some repetitive operations and would allow those cuts to be made with Dusty's adaptation. If you make lots of boxes with square mitered corners, one of these kind of things would be worth making.

Here's the one I used to make my Oops! box. It was a large piece so this was a better way to go. For smaller ones I have a more standard sled with a removable ramp at 45 degrees.

[ATTACH]23146[/ATTACH] Notice the 'model' ShopSmith?
[ATTACH]23147[/ATTACH]

When I get down to AZ and my 510 I may give the idea some more thought but really if it is really a bother to you, a higher CFM dust collector makes a lot of difference IMHO.

Paul M

I think Paul has demonstrated the fallicy of the Mark5/V 500 having a saw table 'too small' for precision work. The 10ER has an even smaller main table.

Again precision is under the direct control of the 'craftsman'.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:45 pm

Ok, no snide remarks please. Here is the beginning of my outside of the box thinking.

[ATTACH]23152[/ATTACH]
I'm thinking of some type of total cover using Velcro to hold things together and to the table. It's flexible enough to allow for the table to tilt 45 % I'm thinking of maybe heavy duty plastic cut in pieces to be attached with Velcro to get around the way tubes etc.

You laugh, but as crude as it is now just using duct tape to hold the pieces together, it works.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:56 pm

fredsheldon wrote:Ok, no snide remarks please. Here is the beginning of my outside of the box thinking.

[ATTACH]23152[/ATTACH]
I'm thinking of some type of total cover using Velcro to hold things together and to the table. It's flexible enough to allow for the table to tilt 45 % I'm thinking of maybe heavy duty plastic cut in pieces to be attached with Velcro to get around the way tubes etc. You laugh, but as crude as it is now just using duct tape to hold the pieces together, it works.

The reason it 'works' is the increased air flow with the insert removed!:D

'Outside' fer sure!:)