Noisey Power Pro Headstock

[hfmann]

Well,

After all that, machine is much quieter and smoother when running. video running through the speeds while still apart. 1 min 38 seconds
https://youtu.be/sG2tNmtiExs

HOWEVER, have the same problem when turning as I had before. SEVERE machine noise when turning an item not supported by a tailstock. Tried to show and record noise in these two very short videos. In both recordings, the item is attached to the spindle by a faceplate. The difference is that the quiet one (29 seconds) is supported on the tail end by a live center, and the one with heavy machine noise is not supported. Tried several ways to record the noise, but couldn't get it on film to sound as BAD as it does in person.
quiet - https://youtu.be/xoSnz-5naXA
heavy noise - https://youtu.be/y7i2Yt85Iik

This all is making me think the problem is in the quill. I took it apart earlier in this whole process thinking I'd find a bent shaft. It didn't seem so. I did watch James Hopp's videos about quill quality at his Shopsmith Repair Academy website. Maybe the quill bearings are the problem. How would I determine that? $174 to replace the whole quill assembly.

hal

[DLB]

In this image, taken from the first video, it appears to me that your Idler bearing is slightly recessed relative to the eccentric. Possibly an illusion, but I wanted to point it out:

Recessed Bearing?

Hal (2).jpg (116.5 KiB) Viewed 1842 times

If you already know this no worries, it is not recessed very much. I did the same to improve that whole straightedge thing. But if you did not do it on purpose you might want to correct it.

For the unsupported turning noise I'm hoping someone with a lot of bowl turning experience chimes in. Your idea that it is the quill makes sense, but I'm not the right person to say if it is excessive. You might try measuring/evaluating end play and runout on the quill arbor.

Just to confirm, early in this process you did find the motor pulley setscrew loose or out - Correct? If yes, did SS Customer Service suggest checking the fan setscrew as well?

- David

[rpd]

In the third (heavy noise) video, with the quill fully retracted, you don't have the quill lock engaged, that will allow the quill to move a bit in the housing.

Try it again with the quill locked.

[hfmann]

"it appears to me that your Idler bearing is slightly recessed relative to the eccentric"
David - I too was wondering about that. I wish I had paid more attention at the beginning, but I wondered as I kept messing with tension and eccentric adjustments if it was slipping. Certainly not intentional. Couldn't see a way to push it back up. I noticed in Jim's video on idler installation, he put a small screw in the end to "hold the bearing in." I sure couldn''t see a screw on my idler shaft.

"Just to confirm, early in this process you did find the motor pulley setscrew loose or out - Correct? If yes, did SS Customer Service suggest checking the fan setscrew as well?" Motor pulley setscrew was totally out. I didn't talk to SS CS about this. In the past when I've called for help, they want to charge me to talk to an engineer. I think your earlier suggestion was to check the fan at the same time as I was doing this other work. I toyed with that idea many times but decided not to do that. It was going to require taking the motor completely out and so far I had kept it attached with the uppermost screw. - Maybe the time has come to suck it up and do that too.


Ron - interesting. Wasn't quite sure what you're were talking about as I thought I had it tightened down and confirmed that the quill wouldn't extend. I did check this morning and without a terrible amount of pressure on the handle the quill would extend. So I cranked the lock down further getting nearly another half turn. What made you think it wasn't locked enough? Anyway, with the tightening, things were only SLIGHTLY better. Still an awful lot of chattering and noise when turning even this small piece. It's especially bad when cutting toward the spindle (e.g. cutting across the end to form tenon or mortise). That's another thing that makes me think this is a quill bearing problem.

thanks.

hal

[rpd]

Ron - interesting. Wasn't quite sure what you're were talking about as I thought I had it tightened down and confirmed that the quill wouldn't extend. I did check this morning and without a terrible amount of pressure on the handle the quill would extend. So I cranked the lock down further getting nearly another half turn. What made you think it wasn't locked enough? Anyway, with the tightening, things were only SLIGHTLY better. Still an awful lot of chattering and noise when turning even this small piece. It's especially bad when cutting toward the spindle (e.g. cutting across the end to form tenon or mortise). That's another thing that makes me think this is a quill bearing problem.

thanks.

hal

In the between centers video the quill is extended and the lock knob is vertical , in the last video with the quill retracted, the lock knob is horizontal so 1/4 turn less tight.

[hfmann]

Hi Ron,
"In the between centers video the quill is extended and the lock knob is vertical , in the last video with the quill retracted, the lock knob is horizontal so 1/4 turn less tight."

Great observation. I'll certainly be more careful of that in the future. Thanks.

hal

[DLB]

This document from SS web site has a couple of sections you should look at: https://www.shopsmith.com/mediawiki/ind ... _Headstock The part on Motor Pulley Setscrew is where I found the note on Fan Setscrew. See the belt adjustment for general info. (I found it simple to adjust belt tension to that 10 - 15 degree idler rotation I mentioned earlier. In other words, it provides some clarity as to too loose/tight.) Also see the section on Bearing Going Bad, it could be interpreted as an indication that SS delivered some PPs with improperly treated quill spindles that are therefore subject to lifetime warranty.

I'm glad I looked for that and reread it. It also mentions that the pulley should be against the snap ring, which mine isn't. This has been an enlightening thread for me, My PowerPro is aligned/adjusted better than ever.

You should be able to push the Idler bearing back in by pressing on the Idler shaft itself with the clamping bolt loose. You might have to rebalance belt tension. I don't recall that portion of the DIY install video you mentioned but I wanted to watch some parts again anyway. If there is something, I didn't do it. Mine is like yours, there are screws that keep the bearing and bushing from going outboard too far, but nothing to keep them from going inboard except the belts. These screws are the same as conventional headstock since pretty far back where they may help with the speed control pushing out on the Idler.

(I was wondering what Ron saw in that video too. The way the quill lock works, extreme tightness may matter. Moderately tight it kind of locks the rack and pinion mechanism so it feels locked. Tighter, it clamps the headstock casting around the quill itself. I use a bit of extra oomph on the quill lock, much more than wedgelocks for example.)

- David

[RFGuy]

Hal,

I have never owned a PowerPro, but I am just wondering if the noise you are hearing now is "normal" for a PowerPro while woodturning? I only say this because I have seen a few threads posted on this forum talking about this issue. Some have had setscrews come lose either from the pulley or drive hubs, but even once these have been confirmed tight, I thought a certain level of noise, clanking, etc. was to be expected when turning with the PowerPro. In other words, how quiet is the PowerPro supposed to be while woodturning with a balanced turning blank? There was also mention of a special re-calibration procedure that some owners had done to their PowerPro while troubleshooting the issue with Shopsmith. If you had already seen these threads, I apologize, but if not check these out:

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... 23192.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... ml#p116874

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... 18016.html

[edma194]

hfmann,

First, if the idler bearing is not all the way in the eccentric bushing then both belts could be out of alignment. With the retaining bolt loosened to do the balancing it should work it's way into position. I've kind of lost track of where you are in the balancing, where did the slot in the eccentric bushing end up, did you get to the 9 o'clock position? The eccentric bushing and the bearing should be all the way up against two retaining washers, is that the case for you?

Everyone,

The link below provided by RF Guy has some instructions for programming the controller. Has anyone found more information about this? There may be custom firmware from the motor company for the Shopsmith but I would think the underlying system is the same. Has anyone located a technical document about these motor controllers?

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... ml#p116874



ADJUSTING THE POWERPRO SETTINGS

*** DISCLAIMER ***
This procedure was given to me by ShopSmith Tech Support to solve the banging noise issue while using the bandsaw. It involves making changes to two settings. Please read and follow this carefully, as I don’t know what will happen if the wrong parameter is changed.

1) Press “LOCK” and “9500” at the same time.
2) Press “2000”. You will be prompted to enter the Service Password (3210) as follows:
i) Press “900” to set the first digit to 3
ii) Press “1350” to set the second digit to 2
iii) Press “2000” to set the third digit to 1
iv) The display should now read “3210”. Press “CONFIRM”. Display will say “Accepted”
3) Press “UP RPM” until the top line reads “CurLimM = “. (Make a note of this original value).
4) Press “CONFIRM” to edit this value. Use the “UP RPM” or “DOWN RPM” buttons to set this value to 100, then press “CONFIRM”.
5) Press “UP RPM” until the top line reads “IrOFFSET = “. (Make a note of this original value).
6) Press “CONFIRM” to edit this value. Use the “UP RPM” or “DOWN RPM” buttons to set this value to 100, then press “CONFIRM”.
7) Press “OFF” to exit Service Mode.
8) Test the bandsaw by resawing a wide board.
9) If the banging noise persists, repeat this procedure and set “IrOFFSET” to a higher value
10) If the banging noise is eliminated, but overspeed is a problem, set “IrOFFSET” to a lower value.
11) There is a compromise between the banging and overspeed. Try to find the smallest value that will eliminate the banging, and the overspeed will not be much of an issue. In my case this value was 130.

[DLB]

Anyone considering changing parameters in their PowerPro should also consider this post by Jim (McCann, I presume) in the same thread: https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 84#p116984 Summary - He does not endorse the practice.

I don't doubt that some PowerPro Idler bushings, correctly adjusted, point at or near 9:00. Mine does not. I can tell from the OP's video that his is nowhere near that either. I am sure that there is enough manufacturing variability in the belts alone to explain variation in the result. The indicated position doesn't tell us much, if anything, about the amount of tension on the two belts or how well balanced they are.

- David