Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:33 am
Just assumingJPG40504 wrote:Careful:D there!
Dave
Dave
Shopsmith Forums
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SS Tracksaw
Page 9 of 14
Dave
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:59 am
It has been an interesting 24 hours. I would like to answer some of the concerns and questions that you have posted, then hopefully we can move on to a discussion of what makes track saws great and why every woodworker needs one.
My partner and I first became aware of track saws several years ago when Festool first brought them into the U.S. After learning about EZ, we both felt that at the right price and with the right marketing, that EZ had the potential to become a very successful company. We met with Dino at the EZ factory one time for around 4 hours to explore ways we could work together to build the EZ brand. When we left, Dino gave us some track and plates to try out.
The reasons that we decided not to do business with Dino are not something that needs to be discussed on a forum. Let me say that we respect his inventive mind and I am sure he will continue to bring out more new products. I’d also like to add that if we’d wanted to just copy the EZ design we could have just ordered EZ products for far less than we spent traveling to visit Dino.
Festool designed & patented the first track saw back in the mid 1960’s, therefore ALL track saws since derive part of their design from the ideas first developed by Festool. The one thing that Dewalt, Makita, EZ and True Trac have in common is that we have all studied all of the existing designs and tried to improve on them when we developed our designs. Dino studied Festool and designed a better system. We studied Festool, DeWalt, Makita, & EZ and developed a better system. I want to emphasize that we have carefully studied all of the relevant patents and our design does not infringe upon anybody’s patents, including Dino’s.
A key area we focused on in our development efforts has been how the saw meets the track. As I stated in yesterday’s post, we spent much of our time, effort, and money on developing our own unique design of how the saw rides on the track. We feel we have developed much better interface that is truly unique. Our plate just locks onto the track with no wiggle and no binding. You must feel it for yourself to understand just how well it works.
A comment was made that if it took us 2 years to make a track, how long would it take us to add tools. I feel this in itself (2 years) shows that we were developing our own design, if all we wanted to do was knock off EZ we could have had a product on the market in 4 months, not 2 years. A complete line of accessories is in progress. We have also spent a lot of development time and testing to ensure our accessories will function perfectly.
Our soon to be released square is truly self-squaring. Once you tighten the attachment bolts, it is square. The design ensures that it can’t be anything except square. There is no need to ever adjust it or check it, although we encourage you to do so. Our repeater will set a new standard of functionality and ease of use. As for the clamps, no they will not be similar to the EZ system clamps. We decided the clamps currently on the market did not meet our expectations; therefore we are designing our own. That takes time. They will be out on the market this fall.
As for my relationship with ShopSmith, I was a sales rep from the late 1970’s until the late 1990’s, but have not been associated with or employed by them since. The track was not designed with the help of SS, nor was there any thought to integrating the two systems, although that is an interesting idea. We are an independent company, and we are excited to be working with one of the premier woodworking toolmakers in the U.S.
Now hopefully we can continue discussing why every woodworker needs a track saw in his/her shop! We believe that after you compare our track saw system to our competitors, you will choose a TrueTrac system for your shop.
My partner and I first became aware of track saws several years ago when Festool first brought them into the U.S. After learning about EZ, we both felt that at the right price and with the right marketing, that EZ had the potential to become a very successful company. We met with Dino at the EZ factory one time for around 4 hours to explore ways we could work together to build the EZ brand. When we left, Dino gave us some track and plates to try out.
The reasons that we decided not to do business with Dino are not something that needs to be discussed on a forum. Let me say that we respect his inventive mind and I am sure he will continue to bring out more new products. I’d also like to add that if we’d wanted to just copy the EZ design we could have just ordered EZ products for far less than we spent traveling to visit Dino.
Festool designed & patented the first track saw back in the mid 1960’s, therefore ALL track saws since derive part of their design from the ideas first developed by Festool. The one thing that Dewalt, Makita, EZ and True Trac have in common is that we have all studied all of the existing designs and tried to improve on them when we developed our designs. Dino studied Festool and designed a better system. We studied Festool, DeWalt, Makita, & EZ and developed a better system. I want to emphasize that we have carefully studied all of the relevant patents and our design does not infringe upon anybody’s patents, including Dino’s.
A key area we focused on in our development efforts has been how the saw meets the track. As I stated in yesterday’s post, we spent much of our time, effort, and money on developing our own unique design of how the saw rides on the track. We feel we have developed much better interface that is truly unique. Our plate just locks onto the track with no wiggle and no binding. You must feel it for yourself to understand just how well it works.
A comment was made that if it took us 2 years to make a track, how long would it take us to add tools. I feel this in itself (2 years) shows that we were developing our own design, if all we wanted to do was knock off EZ we could have had a product on the market in 4 months, not 2 years. A complete line of accessories is in progress. We have also spent a lot of development time and testing to ensure our accessories will function perfectly.
Our soon to be released square is truly self-squaring. Once you tighten the attachment bolts, it is square. The design ensures that it can’t be anything except square. There is no need to ever adjust it or check it, although we encourage you to do so. Our repeater will set a new standard of functionality and ease of use. As for the clamps, no they will not be similar to the EZ system clamps. We decided the clamps currently on the market did not meet our expectations; therefore we are designing our own. That takes time. They will be out on the market this fall.
As for my relationship with ShopSmith, I was a sales rep from the late 1970’s until the late 1990’s, but have not been associated with or employed by them since. The track was not designed with the help of SS, nor was there any thought to integrating the two systems, although that is an interesting idea. We are an independent company, and we are excited to be working with one of the premier woodworking toolmakers in the U.S.
Now hopefully we can continue discussing why every woodworker needs a track saw in his/her shop! We believe that after you compare our track saw system to our competitors, you will choose a TrueTrac system for your shop.
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:16 am
Thank You for (again) posting explicit meaningful information!!!
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:26 am
[quote="tool72"]It has been an interesting 24 hours. I would like to answer some of the concerns and questions that you have posted, then hopefully we can move on to a discussion of what makes track saws great and why every woodworker needs one.
My partner and I first became aware of track saws several years ago when Festool first brought them into the U.S. After learning about EZ, we both felt that at the right price and with the right marketing, that EZ had the potential to become a very successful company. We met with Dino at the EZ factory one time for around 4 hours to explore ways we could work together to build the EZ brand. When we left, Dino gave us some track and plates to try out.
The reasons that we decided not to do business with Dino are not something that needs to be discussed on a forum. Let me say that we respect his inventive mind and I am sure he will continue to bring out more new products. I’d also like to add that if we’d wanted to just copy the EZ design we could have just ordered EZ products for far less than we spent traveling to visit Dino.
Festool designed & patented the first track saw back in the mid 1960’s, therefore ALL track saws since derive part of their design from the ideas first developed by Festool. The one thing that Dewalt, Makita, EZ and True Trac have in common is that we have all studied all of the existing designs and tried to improve on them when we developed our designs. Dino studied Festool and designed a better system. We studied Festool, DeWalt, Makita, & EZ and developed a better system. I want to emphasize that we have carefully studied all of the relevant patents and our design does not infringe upon anybody’s patents, including Dino’s.
A key area we focused on in our development efforts has been how the saw meets the track. As I stated in yesterday’s post, we spent much of our time, effort, and money on developing our own unique design of how the saw rides on the track. We feel we have developed much better interface that is truly unique. Our plate just locks onto the track with no wiggle and no binding. You must feel it for yourself to understand just how well it works.
A comment was made that if it took us 2 years to make a track, how long would it take us to add tools. I feel this in itself (2 years) shows that we were developing our own design, if all we wanted to do was knock off EZ we could have had a product on the market in 4 months, not 2 years. A complete line of accessories is in progress. We have also spent a lot of development time and testing to ensure our accessories will function perfectly.
Our soon to be released square is truly self-squaring. Once you tighten the attachment bolts, it is square. The design ensures that it can’t be anything except square. There is no need to ever adjust it or check it, although we encourage you to do so. Our repeater will set a new standard of functionality and ease of use. As for the clamps, no they will not be similar to the EZ system clamps. We decided the clamps currently on the market did not meet our expectations]
Ok nothing personal at all and hope you all the best down the road. But it did and does look a little strange on how things went along you must say. Its not just the track there are many straight edge guides out there but not many with a smart base to place on any saw even a plunge saw. The more tools out there that gets rid of the radial armsaw,Table Saw to make things safe is a good thing. I don't know the laws on this and don't really care whats right or wrong will come out when ever. I must say you track is nothing like Fesstool or Dewalt,Makita But is mutch like EZ Track more so then the rest and as for better not sure how you can say that at this point. How many have bean sold to date. Testing on your own is not a true test. But anyway it looks good because the Idea is sound.
Thanks for your time Dick or tool72 all the best in your endevers
My partner and I first became aware of track saws several years ago when Festool first brought them into the U.S. After learning about EZ, we both felt that at the right price and with the right marketing, that EZ had the potential to become a very successful company. We met with Dino at the EZ factory one time for around 4 hours to explore ways we could work together to build the EZ brand. When we left, Dino gave us some track and plates to try out.
The reasons that we decided not to do business with Dino are not something that needs to be discussed on a forum. Let me say that we respect his inventive mind and I am sure he will continue to bring out more new products. I’d also like to add that if we’d wanted to just copy the EZ design we could have just ordered EZ products for far less than we spent traveling to visit Dino.
Festool designed & patented the first track saw back in the mid 1960’s, therefore ALL track saws since derive part of their design from the ideas first developed by Festool. The one thing that Dewalt, Makita, EZ and True Trac have in common is that we have all studied all of the existing designs and tried to improve on them when we developed our designs. Dino studied Festool and designed a better system. We studied Festool, DeWalt, Makita, & EZ and developed a better system. I want to emphasize that we have carefully studied all of the relevant patents and our design does not infringe upon anybody’s patents, including Dino’s.
A key area we focused on in our development efforts has been how the saw meets the track. As I stated in yesterday’s post, we spent much of our time, effort, and money on developing our own unique design of how the saw rides on the track. We feel we have developed much better interface that is truly unique. Our plate just locks onto the track with no wiggle and no binding. You must feel it for yourself to understand just how well it works.
A comment was made that if it took us 2 years to make a track, how long would it take us to add tools. I feel this in itself (2 years) shows that we were developing our own design, if all we wanted to do was knock off EZ we could have had a product on the market in 4 months, not 2 years. A complete line of accessories is in progress. We have also spent a lot of development time and testing to ensure our accessories will function perfectly.
Our soon to be released square is truly self-squaring. Once you tighten the attachment bolts, it is square. The design ensures that it can’t be anything except square. There is no need to ever adjust it or check it, although we encourage you to do so. Our repeater will set a new standard of functionality and ease of use. As for the clamps, no they will not be similar to the EZ system clamps. We decided the clamps currently on the market did not meet our expectations]
Ok nothing personal at all and hope you all the best down the road. But it did and does look a little strange on how things went along you must say. Its not just the track there are many straight edge guides out there but not many with a smart base to place on any saw even a plunge saw. The more tools out there that gets rid of the radial armsaw,Table Saw to make things safe is a good thing. I don't know the laws on this and don't really care whats right or wrong will come out when ever. I must say you track is nothing like Fesstool or Dewalt,Makita But is mutch like EZ Track more so then the rest and as for better not sure how you can say that at this point. How many have bean sold to date. Testing on your own is not a true test. But anyway it looks good because the Idea is sound.
Thanks for your time Dick or tool72 all the best in your endevers
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:28 am
By this forums nature this is a pretty venomous thread, not really an enjoyable thread to read. I am interested in the track saws (don't know if I'll buy one anytime soon but I am interested) and I thought that as usual on this forum I would get some good information. Instead what I found is that the straight edge I use is all I need for now. I just don't see that it can do enough for me to justify the cost over my plywood and steel angle iron, maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see it.
I can tell you that one overzealous fan of one of the tract saws has definitely soured me on a certain brand.
I can tell you that one overzealous fan of one of the tract saws has definitely soured me on a certain brand.
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:48 am
Correct observation, Correct conclusion, Wrong reason to dis the brand.jcraigie wrote: . . .
I can tell you that one overzealous fan of one of the tract saws has definitely soured me on a certain brand.
I don't like it because he likes it is not logical!;)
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:12 am
I don't like it because he likes it is not logical!;)[/QUOTE]
Poorly worded on my part. For me I research things to death before I buy and I try to take all information available into account including the (what I percieve to be) rantings and ravings of what appear to be "fanboys". I have come to find that these people usually have little substance to contribute about the product and my decision to buy or not and I have found that the more boisterious the "fanboys" the less I end up finding to like about the product. These products usually end up being so-so with others being much better. That's the reason I am now slightly soured on this brand, if I were to get into the market for one of these "gizmos" I would do my due diligence and I would include it in my research, but as I stated above I now have pretty low expectations of what I would find with this product (I hope I'm wrong).
I still would like for someone to be able to tell me how these products are better than my straight edge on a board? Other than the fancy clean lines and shiney light weight aluminum.
This is only my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it.
I don't want to get into a flame war with anyone about anything - I got past that nonsense a long time ago and I now refuse to get involved in one.
Poorly worded on my part. For me I research things to death before I buy and I try to take all information available into account including the (what I percieve to be) rantings and ravings of what appear to be "fanboys". I have come to find that these people usually have little substance to contribute about the product and my decision to buy or not and I have found that the more boisterious the "fanboys" the less I end up finding to like about the product. These products usually end up being so-so with others being much better. That's the reason I am now slightly soured on this brand, if I were to get into the market for one of these "gizmos" I would do my due diligence and I would include it in my research, but as I stated above I now have pretty low expectations of what I would find with this product (I hope I'm wrong).
I still would like for someone to be able to tell me how these products are better than my straight edge on a board? Other than the fancy clean lines and shiney light weight aluminum.
This is only my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it.
I don't want to get into a flame war with anyone about anything - I got past that nonsense a long time ago and I now refuse to get involved in one.Track Saw for Dustys Shop
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:12 am
I've had the makings of a track saw for quite some time and did not know it. Reading this thread over made me think about it.
I have a straight edge made by EEmerson Tool that was made for this use and did not know it. It was a gift that I just never appreciated for what it was.
Guess what, the saw rides up on top of the track.
No! Not true. After a closer look, it does NOT ride up on top. It does not provide some of the real advantages of the True Trac or of the EZ System.
I have a straight edge made by EEmerson Tool that was made for this use and did not know it. It was a gift that I just never appreciated for what it was.
Guess what, the saw rides up on top of the track.
No! Not true. After a closer look, it does NOT ride up on top. It does not provide some of the real advantages of the True Trac or of the EZ System.Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:03 am
I still would like for someone to be able to tell me how these products are better than my straight edge on a board?
There are contractors who make cabinets using veneered sheet goods. Using a tracksaw it's easily cut to exact size and is then ready for gluing.
If your method lets you go from a saw cut to gluing up with no jointing or sanding the cut edges then why change?
There are contractors who make cabinets using veneered sheet goods. Using a tracksaw it's easily cut to exact size and is then ready for gluing.
If your method lets you go from a saw cut to gluing up with no jointing or sanding the cut edges then why change?
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:00 pm
jm51 wrote:I still would like for someone to be able to tell me how these products are better than my straight edge on a board?
I'll try to answer this question.
The best one is the one that fits your needs!In my opinion, a straight edge is a straight edge, as long as it is straight!
If a straight edge is used as a guide for sawing/routing/scoring/etc. it is a often called a saw guide.
If the saw guide has a feature that holds the saw/router/ or other tool from wandering away from the guide = it is called a tracksaw (I think
)If a woodworker uses either a straight edge or a saw guide or a track saw to mill straight lines successfully then there is none of these any better than the others. In my opinion! The best one is the one that better fits the needs of the user.
Some folks prefer to use a multi dollar tool to do what can be done with hand tools. This choice is clearly up to them.
If a contractor thinks he can save $ by using an expensive tool and thereby save customers $. He should choose the more expensive tool. If a hobby wood worker likes the expensive tool (or brand of tool), he/she should use it, if affordable.
Final thought as it applies to my shop - a straight edge is a straight edge. I have one especially made for drywall installation. You've seen my saw guide in a previous post.