Shopsmith Forums

Just watched the local news here in central CA where they showed a story about the Saw Stop technology. The story was about how the California State Senate is now currently discussing to pass a bill that requires all table saws sold in California have the Saw Stop technology built in.

The new law is scheduled to take effect in 2015 if it passes, which it looks like it will. The proponents of the bill says it will save the state money on everything from workers comp to unemployment benifits. The opposition says the cost of the saws will be to high, which seems to many to be a poor reason why not to have them. Those on the pro side say that the cost will be small, only $100-$125 per saw retail, not enough to stop the bill from going through.

I'm not sure what side I'm on yet, just watching what will happen currently. I do know that I have no idea how Shopsmith can add this to their current lineup unless they can find a way to make the spindle stop with a braking system inside the headstock. And if they do, how much more will a Shopsmith cost? Just look at the price of the Power Pro. If not, Shopsmith will no longer be able to sell Mark V's, VII's, etc. in California. I'm also afraid that if the bill does pass and takes hold here in CA, other states will follow.

I hope Shopsmith is currently looking into this situation as this is something they cannot wait on if they want to stay in business in the future.

I'll have more updates on this when they become available. Please comment as I'm interested in everyones opinions on this.

woodburner wrote:Just watched the local news here in central CA where they showed a story about the Saw Stop technology. The story was about how the California State Senate is now currently discussing to pass a bill that requires all table saws sold in California have the Saw Stop technology built in.

The new law is scheduled to take effect in 2015 if it passes, which it looks like it will. The proponents of the bill says it will save the state money on everything from workers comp to unemployment benifits. The opposition says the cost of the saws will be to high, which seems to many to be a poor reason why not to have them. Those on the pro side say that the cost will be small, only $100-$125 per saw retail, not enough to stop the bill from going through.

I'm not sure what side I'm on yet, just watching what will happen currently. I do know that I have no idea how Shopsmith can add this to their current lineup unless they can find a way to make the spindle stop with a braking system inside the headstock. And if they do, how much more will a Shopsmith cost? Just look at the price of the Power Pro. If not, Shopsmith will no longer be able to sell Mark V's, VII's, etc. in California. I'm also afraid that if the bill does pass and takes hold here in CA, other states will follow.

I hope Shopsmith is currently looking into this situation as this is something they cannot wait on if they want to stay in business in the future.

I'll have more updates on this when they become available. Please comment as I'm interested in everyones opinions on this.

For the record, I wrote my representative indicating my opposition to the proposed legislation. Darwin had some good ideas and I think table saws can be applicable.

Will the California law require Saw Stop specifically, or generic "flesh detecting" technology? Would the Whirlwind meet the requirements of the law?

If I were Shopsmith, I would right now lower the price on the machines BUT with a catch. Sell the units WITHOUT a table saw. However, the customer would have the option to buy as a seperate kit, the table saw. Next, I would no longer sell circular saw blades. Let the customer find them on their own. Like they say, guns don't kill, bullets do.

The story showed an actual Saw Stop tablesaw being demonstrated in the Senate chamber, using Saw Stop's typical hot dog example in place of an actual finger. Whether the state will require the use of this particular patent, I do not know and probably has not been decided yet. Seems Saw Stop is really backing this bill though. It is also my understanding that the creator of the Saw Stop technology still owns the patent, so he will receive a few dump trucks full of money if the bill passes, as all the tool companies that want to sell table saws here in CA will need to purchase a license from him to use the braking system he says he invented.

All of this has arisen from a lawsuit a laborer for a contractor won in court a couple years back and it has now opened a whole can of worms on this subject. The laborer admittedly said he was not using the table saw correctly while ripping a board in half, with no fence, guards or safety equipment in place and that he had received no training from his formans on the jobsite, and injured his hand when the wood he was cutting had a major kick back. The tablesaw was a portable contractors saw you see for sale at the big box hardware stores.

Of course the plaintiffs lawyers pounced all over the tool companies, saying that because they failed to imploy a sawblade braking system in the saws they are selling, the injury occured. Forget the fact that the person injured should not have been using the saw in the first place. The patent holder and owner of Saw Stop also testified on the plaintiffs behalf, saying that his braking system would have prevented the injury.

All of this has lead to the government having to decide how this problem should be handled. I'm all for safety and use all my guards and other safety equipment, but I also use my mind and commonsense. Nothing is full proof, even with all the safety guards in place, and that includes the brake system on certain tablesaws. I do know that there are tools much scarier in my workshop than my Shopsmith's tablesaw. Just look at the speed a router runs or that piece of wood spinning openly on a lathe. I have used all my tools for years with no seroius injuries because I use commonsense while working in my shop and think about what I'm doing.

Hopefully this does not roll down hill and eventually ban people from having a workshop in their garage. If the government feels they need to step in and regulate table saws, then it is just a matter of time when others come out of the woodwork and want to regulate all types of tools. If that happens, what will happen to all the big box hardware stores?

Look around. You can find evidence that the Government is attempting to take control over almost everything that we do.

The latest involves the EPA and minor farm workers. They have determined that the morning chores are too dangerous and children should not be allowed to do them.

If California passes this, I wonder what effect the resulting monopoly will have on the price of table saws in California. Greed being as it is, I will bet my Shopsmith that prices will go up more that the amount being stated by SawStop.

This discussion makes my heart rate spike. The SawStop may be the death of me even with flesh detection. Actually, I am impressed by the SawStop. Gass's tactics are what makes me really angry.

I'm going to the shop. I gotta settle down. Some saw dust therapy will do me good.

A favorite scene of mine is in the remake movie of 'Arthur'. Russel Brand plays Arthur and Nick Nolte is the tough future father-in-law. Jumping forward to the scene that leads to Nolte holding Brands head to the Sawstop and making him stick his tongue out as a 'dare to show toughness' and to trigger the blade stop. Yeah, its Hollywood but I wonder what Congress would think if they watched that scene. Laughs from me.

woodburner wrote:The story showed an actual Saw Stop tablesaw being demonstrated in the Senate chamber, using Saw Stop's typical hot dog example in place of an actual finger. Whether the state will require the use of this particular patent, I do not know and probably has not been decided yet. Seems Saw Stop is really backing this bill though. It is also my understanding that the creator of the Saw Stop technology still owns the patent, so he will receive a few dump trucks full of money if the bill passes, as all the tool companies that want to sell table saws here in CA will need to purchase a license from him to use the braking system he says he invented.

My guess the day Saw Stop technology or technology like it becomes mandatory will be the day manufactures stop making consumer tablesaws. Quite a few of the pro shops that I know of that would normally use tablesaws have already shifted away from tablesaws. And from talking to many of the others they aren't going to do anything until forced to then they plan on replacing their saws with other methods. And it is my understanding the schools have dropped most of the shop programs because of ligation from injuries so that leaves private consumers as the main market.

Jack up the cost of an already expensive tool and you will see those consumers ready to flock to alternate method for cutting wood if one is offered.

All the guided tools manufactures have to do is step up their marketing efforts and I would guess the switch away from traditional tablesaws would be quick and painless. We already are seeing CNC manufactures building and advertising home consumer priced CNC machines at nearly the cost of high dollar tablesaws.

It would be poetic justice if Gass never received a cent in what I see as his attempt to extort saw manufactures and consumers by fear mongering among legislators who probably never used a tablesaw.

My loophole, I bought a minimax MM16.
That, the Mark Vs that I already own, some hand tools and routers, what more does a guy need?
In the last few years I started getting away from the mentality that the table saw needed to be the center of the workshop universe. I think you'll see more people going that way in the future.

I can't stand Gass' tactics = Tool/ Commonsense terrorist.

pinkiewerewolf wrote:My loophole, I bought a minimax MM16.
That, the Mark Vs that I already own, some hand tools and routers, what more does a guy need?
In the last few years I started getting away from the mentality that the table saw needed to be the center of the workshop universe. I think you'll see more people going that way in the future.

I can't stand Gass' tactics = Tool/ Commonsense terrorist.

I dislike being forced into doing anything. SawStop (Gass) is attempting to set up a situation where, if I want to buy a table saw, the only available to me is a SawStop product. I'll NOT BUY a SawStop - period.