Shopsmith Forums

Has anyone gone the new PowerPro head route? I went to put mine in yesterday, and first the lower (jointer) shaft was pushed in during shipping. Called Shopsmith and Dave walked through how to get it back where it belongs. Unfortunately it was after they closed that I finally got the head on the tubes. Cleaned and waxed the tubes (really needed it) and got the head started on. It's so stiff that it's all I can do to slide it on the tube. I have to stand behind the machine and pull the head back to 'raise' it. And to 'lower' I have to lock the table and raise the machine and let the head slide down! I pulled the pan and there's nothing binding on the tubes that I can see. Do I need to do some honing on the casting? Don't want to but this isn't right.

Paul

I responded to this same post on the Facebook group and I asked about the locks. It seems that they are loose and withdrawn from the tubes and are not causing the problem.

Do you see any scratches on the tubes? If so, can you align that with the holes on the headstock to see where it might be binding or rubbing?

Some things I might do if it were mine doing this and I couldn't see any problems...

If no scratches are evident on the tubes, rub on a coat of wax, but don't buff it out. Then move the headstock back and forth. Look for scratches in the wax on the tubes and/or buildup on the headstock. This could indicate where it's rubbing.

Remove the headstock, take a sharpie or magic marker and color the inside of the holes that the tubes go through. Move the headstock back and forth a few times. Remove it and look at where you colored with the marker and see where it's rubbed off.

These steps may or may not tell you anything. But if it were mine doing this and visually inspecting everything didn't reveal any binding or problems, I might do this as troubleshooting steps.

Hopefully someone else will have better ideas.

If I understand you the headstock is actually on the way tubes but you can't move the head along the tubes, correct?
If the headstock is on the waytubes can you reinstall the tie bar? If the tie bar won't go on then the headstock is pinching the way tubes. Another thing that comes to mind is the diameter of the way tubes. Are they of the dimension for the headstock casting? Earlier machines have a larger diameter way tubes and that may cause a problem.
I also bought the entire headstock assembled from SS and I was not impressed with the fit and finish of the way tube holes in the casting.
Both of the photos show the rather rough finish of the waytube bores ofa new headstock. Earlier headstocks have a much smoothre and refined finish on the interior of the bores.
I also had to remove some casting feathers and rough edges with a fine file. I did this on the way tube bores as well as the the quill housing bore in the headstock casting.

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BIll V

I don't know if this is typical of more than one older Shopsmith. I removed the way tubes on a unit and when I put them back after cleaning and polishing the headstock seemed tight. I had to rotate one of the tubes slightly and it worked fine. There may have been a slight sag or bend in the tube from previous rough life.

redleg wrote:I don't know if this is typical of more than one older Shopsmith. I removed the way tubes on a unit and when I put them back after cleaning and polishing the headstock seemed tight. I had to rotate one of the tubes slightly and it worked fine. There may have been a slight sag or bend in the tube from previous rough life.

What you describe is very normal and is typical of many Mark 5/V's. A less than perfectly straight way tube pair can be the cause of binding and rotating the tubes is often the only corrective action required.

NOTE: After rotating the tubes don't forget to tighten the set screws.

He mentioned on the Facebook group that his carriage slides smoothly. Could there still be a problem with the tubes and it only impact movement of the headstock and not the carriage?

In one of Nick Engler's videos he explains that the way tubes are welded and have a seam that runs along the inside of the tube. His recommendation is to rotate the tubes so that they are aligned so that they are either down or up. This way if the tubes do have a crown then the crown will be in the same orientation won't pose a problem.
One other thing. I seem to remember when I got the PP headstock that it was harder than the original to move but I think that it was just the extra 20 pounds.
Could be a mis drilled casting. But that would be my last thought.
Bill V

Looks like I need to pull the head back off and check the bores on the casting. I made sure to measure the tubes before I ordered as I'd seen something about different size tubes over the year. I do have the 1.75" tubes.
When I pulled the tie bar and old head I did notice that the set screws in the pivot end weren't completely tight. They wiggled a bit while waxing the tubes, but I just left them loose until I got the new head on. I'll have to check that they're aligned as they were before. I'm just confused why the old head slid so well and the new one takes all my strength to move (and to me the new head isn't really heavy).
Hopefully I'll get a chance in the next day or two to get it back apart. And I'll take the Dremel with me just in case.
Thanks for the advice guys.

Paul

Let's see, Idler shaft pushed in.

Headstock stiff on the way tubes.(BTW all(10E/ER included) WAY tubes are the same od. Bench tubes have been two sizes))

Locks not a factor.

Carriage still slides normally.

Either the bores are not 'straight' or the casting 'bent'(likely when idler shaft got impacted?).

To determine where it is 'binding', remove the quill and try inserting the quill through the way tube bores(yes take the headstock off the way tubes first). Check all 4 bores.

If that discovers 'nothing', remove a way tube and repeat a pair of bores at a time by inserting the way tube all the way through. Check to see way tube rotates freely all along its length.

This should find something that is causing yer stiffness(rotating tubes may reveal bent tubes).

I doubt bore surface finish is causing this.

Once you have identified cause, a second call to Dayton is in order.

Neither do I think tube seams are an issue since the 'issue' was not evident with the original headstock(I assume that!).



READ THIS FIRST VVVVVVVVVVVV
Now I can understand a bind happening prior to getting the headstock resting on the way tube at both ends of the headstock, but the sliding towards the table comment has me confused. Also the raising and lowering would be 'normal' as the tubes would bind in the bores when the headstock is not aligned to the tubes vertically.

Since the headstock is heavy, considerable effort is required to maintain proper alignment of the headstock to the tubes as the headstock is slid onto them. ANY misalignment(horizontal as well as vertical) will cause binding(severe drag).

Gotta mention this, but a common cause IS wedge interference!!!!!! Make sure they really are not a 'factor'.

Try putting it on backwards to eliminate wedges.

Finally got a chance to pull the head back off. Each casting bore looked different. Only one was smooth. One had deep scoring, and the other two were in between. After a light 'honing' with a drum sander it almost slides on the tubes. Not sure where it's still binding at but it's almost usable now. It's not the wedges though. I've got them backed out as far as I can. I went so far as to remove one of the way tubes and it slides through each side smoothly. I guess it may just be the extra weight of the new unit. Hopefully it will get better as it slides around.

I did notice another possible issue today. Decided to drill out some pen blanks and when I had the quill almost completely extended it didn't want to go back in. Was actually afraid to force it but after some wiggling it went back. I'm hoping I didn't get a bad head. I really don't want to send it back. Will have to do more evaluation.