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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FDe5kUUyT0

Long video, but a real eye opener!


This isn't a political post (per se) so hopefully it doesn't turn into a right vs left thread

joshh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FDe5kUUyT0

Long video, but a real eye opener!


This isn't a political post (per se) so hopefully it doesn't turn into a right vs left thread

Josh,

I watched this video a few days ago after receiving the link from a friend of mine. I agree that this shouldn't be a left/right thing as the facts are the facts when it comes to the US monetary system. Modern day governments would not be possible without a fiat monetary system.

Jack

30 seconds into this video I was asking myself, what's the nice guy in this video selling? Turns out it is gold and silver, and this is part of his sales pitch. And then I asked myself, I wonder what the nice man in the video wants me to use to pay for all that gold and silver with? Turns out he wants me to transfer to him all that currency he just spent a half hour explaining was evil and worthless.

algale wrote:30 seconds into this video I was asking myself, what's the nice guy in this video selling? Turns out it is gold and silver, and this is part of his sales pitch. And then I asked myself, I wonder what the nice man in the video wants me to use to pay for all that gold and silver with? Turns out he wants me to transfer to him all that currency he just spent a half hour explaining was evil and worthless.

I do not recall him calling the 'money' evil!

Beware of what snake oil salsemen are selling, especially when they're stoking fear. Fractional banking? That shipped sailed 500 years ago. And he undercuts his contention that this is soke big secret when he quotes the Fed on how things work.

The big problem is there's just enough truth in there to be plausible. BTW, if you really wanted to have lost lots of money recently, you'd have bought gold.

davebodner wrote:Beware of what snake oil salsemen are selling, especially when they're stoking fear. Fractional banking? That shipped sailed 500 years ago. And he undercuts his contention that this is soke big secret when he quotes the Fed on how things work.

The big problem is there's just enough truth in there to be plausible. BTW, if you really wanted to have lost lots of money recently, you'd have bought gold.

I preferred the explanation of fractional banking given by Jimmy Stewart's character in Its a Wonderful Life when he explained to the town folks demanding all their money back during the bank run that the money wasn't actually in the bank but in their neighbors' businesses, farms and homes....

algale wrote:30 seconds into this video I was asking myself, what's the nice guy in this video selling? Turns out it is gold and silver, and this is part of his sales pitch. And then I asked myself, I wonder what the nice man in the video wants me to use to pay for all that gold and silver with? Turns out he wants me to transfer to him all that currency he just spent a half hour explaining was evil and worthless.

I missed the sales pitch. Doesn't make our economic system any less of a ponzi scheme. His description of how our money is created is spot on though. Our money has no intrinsic value aside from the "good faith and credit of the US".... I do have a question for you though... How would you recommend he sell you gold? Our economic system is based entirely on fiat money (except Bitcoin and some precious metals) so if you are going to participate in commerce, pay your electric bill, by a snow cone, etc you have to have US dollars.

Jack

claimdude wrote:I missed the sales pitch. Doesn't make our economic system any less of a ponzi scheme. His description of how our money is created is spot on though. Our money has no intrinsic value aside from the "good faith and credit of the US".... I do have a question for you though... How would you recommend he sell you gold? Our economic system is based entirely on fiat money (except Bitcoin and some precious metals) so if you are going to participate in commerce, pay your electric bill, by a snow cone, etc you have to have US dollars.

Jack

His gold selling website is prominently linked to on the YouTube page, so that's why I conclude his presentation is really part of a sales pitch and that he's got less than purely educational goals in mind with his presentation. Look up what a Ponzi scheme and pyramid scheme are (two of the terms he used repeatedly in his presentation). The Federal Reserve and fractional banking systems may be confusing and counter-intuitive to the uninitiated, but they don't share the defining characteristics of either a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme. Nor, despite his assertions to the contrary, is the Federal Reserve or fiat money system illegal or unconstitutional. Claiming that they are illegal and unconsitutional ventures into politics and ideology. His use of those perjorative terms is, in my opinion, part of his sales pitch, which is partially dependent on scare tactics.

To answer your question, if I truly thought that gold was intrinsically valuable and that paper money was a hoax about to collapse, I wouldn't recommend he sell me (or anyone else) gold on a commercial basis as the danger is he'd get caught with a major position in worthless paper money when the imminent collapse finally came about. Instead, I'd recommend he sit on his gold while it appreciated in value and only cash out the absolute minimum necessary to pay taxes and purchase necessities while awaiting the zombie apocalypse.

Now I have a question for you. Where do you think gold get its value from and what makes it intrinsically superior to paper money as the basis of a monetary system? Can't eat gold, can't drink it, can't drive your car with it or even burn it to heat your house (at least paper money can be burned and has been burned at times in other countries when their currencies have collapsed!). Once you get away from straight bartering and move to a monetary system, it really doesn't matter what you choose as the basis for your monetary system. Be it gold, silver, seashells, paper or anything else, that monetized thing is only valuable because we collectively agree to pretend as if it is valuable and agree to exchange actual valuable things for whatever thing we have chosen to monetize. That is why some economists say that all money is in reality fiat money. Because even when you can trade in your paper money in for a defined quantity of gold that gold is itself without any intrinsic value unless we agree it has value.

None of this is to say that the present monetary system is perfect or immune from collapse. But potential does not equal probability and in some respects being off the Gold Standard makes it easier to prevent such collapses. Even when we had the Gold Standard, there were booms, busts, depressions, inflation, deflation, currency manipulations, deficit spending and other economic woes.

Nor is holding gold (either in far away vaults or in bullion burried in your own backyard) a panacea. As davebodner points out, people have lost a lot of money in the gold markets.

Two goats, twelve chickens, one dairy cow, three pigs and a garden full of veggies. Put all of this on three acres of grass land and I'm set so long as I don't get sick.

dusty wrote:Two goats, twelve chickens, one dairy cow, three pigs and a garden full of veggies. Put all of this on three acres of grass land and I'm set so long as I don't get sick.

Don't forget one Shopsmith.