Woodworking/Cabinetmaking classes

[2manband]

I wanted to get everybody's input on the value of taking some formal classes. Who has? What was your experience?

I'm thinking about signing up for some classes at my local community college -I should be able to get 16 credits of cabinetmaking education for about $1750 over the course of the next 2 years. (see link)

http://www.hacc.edu/index.cfm?fuseactio ... Cabinetry#

I'm guessing that I'll be able to place out of the English and certainly the Math prerequisites as I have a B.S. in Civil Engineering.

I have some carpentry experience, more on framing/rough carpentry than fine/finish carpentry, and no formal training.

What do you think? Would something like this be worthwhile? Has most of your knowledge come through experience, education, or an equal mix of both?

[dickg1]

I guess the value ($1750) and content of the course depends on what type of cabinetmaking you want to do. Looking at the course content it appears to be geared toward ultimate employment in a professional cabinetmaking shop.

If you are looking toward cabinetmaking as a hobby, or just a little more, you may want to consider the SS self study course. Fundamentally, cabinets are boxes. As you gain confidence, you embellish the boxes. Take a look at the latest Sawdust session. Nick does a good job of pointing this out.

Dickg1

[Ed in Tampa]

I'm a firm believer in education the more the better. I would think this would be an excellent place to start provided they include plenty of hands on experience.
I believe the biggest secret to successful woodworking is patience and the ability to slow down our normal tendency to hurry up and get things done. I think I have developed that over the years but I'm still in awe of guy like David Marks (Woodworks on the DIY channel). He is willing and able to spend all day cutting and fitting to perfection a couple of dove tails. Of course his work shows the precision and attention to details.

My workworking education (what little I have) mostly taught me proper tool handling, proper proceedures and respect for the craft. Experience then taught me how best to adapt these skills into my own abilities. The hardest part of all of this is to resist the urge to take the short cut.

I say go for it!
Ed

[8iowa]

2man:

The course does appear to be geared to preping a student to pursue cabinet making as a vocation - as is usually the case with college courses.

Today, I'm not sure that I would advise a young man to pursue such a vocation. Small cabinet shops are being squeezed out by larger companies that produce cabinets with CNC and lazer guided machines. The "big boxes" sell a lot of this stuff. The high end custom cabinet shops have to operate in a much smaller market.

[2manband]

2man:

The course does appear to be geared to preping a student to pursue cabinet making as a vocation - as is usually the case with college courses.

Today, I'm not sure that I would advise a young man to pursue such a vocation. Small cabinet shops are being squeezed out by larger companies that produce cabinets with CNC and lazer guided machines. The "big boxes" sell a lot of this stuff. The high end custom cabinet shops have to operate in a much smaller market.

I'm not really interested in pursuing it as a vocation - I'm an engineer by profession, and am pretty happy in that line of work. I'm more interested in woodworking as a hobby - and would eventually like to fill my home with furniture and cabinets that I've made. I see the training as a way to jump start my woodworking, get a solid foundation, and maybe bypass some novice pitfalls.

I like the community college route better than a self study course or a series of less formal seminars because it would result in me having an accredited certification. Maybe I want to open a small shop after retirement, or have a part time business, or maybe the world stops needing engineers someday, etc. - in which case having a trade school diploma to hang on the wall might come in handy. But, for the most part, my interest in woodworking is purely recreational.

[Ed in Tampa]

2man:

The course does appear to be geared to preping a student to pursue cabinet making as a vocation - as is usually the case with college courses.

Today, I'm not sure that I would advise a young man to pursue such a vocation. Small cabinet shops are being squeezed out by larger companies that produce cabinets with CNC and lazer guided machines. The "big boxes" sell a lot of this stuff. The high end custom cabinet shops have to operate in a much smaller market.

8Iwowa I tend to disagree. Here is why. At one time a young man could get a job in a corporation, with full benefits and have a long and prosperous career followed by a nice retirement pension. However that is rapidly changing, benefits are being cut, pensions done away with and jobs are being lost as more and more are being shipped overseas. I think this trend is only going to increase and probably accelerate.

I think the people that will survive will be those that offer services, such as medical, tradesmen, craftsmen and farmers. Construction is down but if you look around you will see the real craftsmen still have more business than they can handle. The economy is down but again real craftsmen are in demand and again have more work than they can handle.

Cabinet making will always be with us, there is still enough money floating around that people want upscale cabinets and trim. Besides if times get really bad there will be less of tossing it in junk to buy a new one. I think we are going to see acceleration in the repair business. Look at good auto repair shops they are hiring because people are hanging on to their cars longer. A cabinet maker that can come in and transform crumpling cabinets into usable cabinets will have all the work he can do. Again the emphasis is on Good, shoddy workmanship will die quickly. Education is always a good thing.
Ed

[scottss]

I would check your local library for books and videos first, I have watched several videos from my library for refreshers. Also Norm A of new yankee workshop is doing a series on cabinets right now on pbs http://www.newyankee.com/index.php. I am more less self taught with the exception of wood shop in hs and some on the job training from my old bos. Cabinets are just a plywood carcase with a nice face frame on them to hang doors and drawers. There isn't alot to a basic cabinet. Of course you can get more involved with say a bowfront. There are tricks like bookmatching and layout so that the front looks like a continues board. And maybe these things you would pick up in a class I'm not sure. They come natural after time after all some of us have been bending nails and making sawdust for more than 30+ years now I'm starting to date myself so I will quit babbling.

[paulmcohen]

I have taken several courses, and my son took the classes you describe at the local community college. He learned basic skills such as using tools and making basic cases but I would not hire him to make me cabinets he does not have the experience. The courses I have taken were offered by "experts" and tended to have 2-5 people with lots of personalized instruction. I can't imagine the degree being worth much (what people hiring (either shop owners or consumers) look for is apprenticeships or experience respectively) but that amount of classroom training for $1750 is very cheap. Most of the courses I have taken run closer to $50 per hour or more.

[cadman84]

Ed has an excellent point. I am an engineer as well and I look to the future and see my job being so stressful and requiring so much travel that I question how long I want to keep it up. I’ve also seen several colleagues go through some really rough times when the company I work for moved from Boston to Wichita. I have started gearing up my skills in woodworking to be prepared if we decide Wichita is not for us and we move back to the east coast in a hurry or if I just burn out. Since no one has a crystal ball and can tell me what my future will be I am making sure I have a backup plan. It’s one thing to have the desire or even the talent. It’s another to be ready to go with proof of your abilities and in this case your education/training.

I also believe that there is and will be enough work replacing and repairing items in and around homes that a skilled craftsman can make a living even in a down economy. I just look at my own home which is only four years old and every window in the place leaks so bad that it feels like a wind tunnel. If my home is this bad how many thousands more are the same? As I watch my heating bill go through the roof I can justify paying the price to bring in a skilled tradesman to fix the windows to save money in the long run. I found that there are two guys in my area that all they do is fix windows. Their business comes from the lumber yard who sells the crap windows to the builders.

My father in-law just got laid off at 60 years old from driving a boom truck for a lumber yard. There is little chance he will find similar employment easily so he just called a few friends in the home repair business and he went from being laid off on Friday morning to working on Saturday morning replacing a deck and now he is scheduling work for this summer just from the overflow of his friends businesses.

I believe owning a Shopsmith mark V is a good step towards being prepared if the day should come that you need a new career. or even a way to make money between jobs should the need arise.
Andy

[pinkiewerewolf]

I'm going to take some of the woodworking classes at College of the Redwoods. I'm back in school after medically retiring from firefighting and along with my Culinary clases I might as well enjoy learning some new skills in woodworking.