Sales tax
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
SS prolly pockets the cash. I've only been here for about a week and seems to me SS is one of the most expensive tools you can own. Don't get me wrong, its a neat toy, it really is. But its no replacement for real equipment. SS's charging for information is one of the lamest things I have every seen... I'm quickly losing my interest in SS and its products because of their greed. I mean come on, charing for manuals and information to do restores is lame. I am preserving your history but they seem to see it as lost profit... unless someone can prove the new products are made in america I will never buy anything from SS or thier site.
$1000 for a upgrade? are you serious???
$1000 and a few weeks on CL will build you a whole shop of equipment that makes the SS nothing more than a big paper weight.
Sorry, dont mean to vent... just think SS is a bit greedy and when you ask for help everyone is very quick to tell you what to buy.
information should be free.
and I will buy a manual off ebay before I give SS a dime. I would have actually bought one from SS if they had enough respect for their customer to allow a PDF version.. I see a link.. and it does not work.
I was going to buy a SS and thank god I got it for free... I would have been pretty upset to find out about SS's pay for support attitude if I bought one.
I have never heard of a company charging tax to customer outside of their own state... I'd like to see where they are required to do so.
I was excited about this resto but the more I view this board the sicker this company makes me.
$1000 for a upgrade? are you serious???
$1000 and a few weeks on CL will build you a whole shop of equipment that makes the SS nothing more than a big paper weight.
Sorry, dont mean to vent... just think SS is a bit greedy and when you ask for help everyone is very quick to tell you what to buy.
information should be free.
and I will buy a manual off ebay before I give SS a dime. I would have actually bought one from SS if they had enough respect for their customer to allow a PDF version.. I see a link.. and it does not work.
I was going to buy a SS and thank god I got it for free... I would have been pretty upset to find out about SS's pay for support attitude if I bought one.
I have never heard of a company charging tax to customer outside of their own state... I'd like to see where they are required to do so.
I was excited about this resto but the more I view this board the sicker this company makes me.
-
dusty
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 21371
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
I am really confused by your post regarding Shopsmith. Your description of how you have been treated is totally foreign to any contact that I have had with Shopsmith.
The only statement that you have made that is consistent with my personal experience is that regarding sales tax. We are all caught up in that equally. The beef is not with Shopsmith; it is with our own governments (local, state, federal).
If you dislike your Shopsmith so badly maybe you should get rid of it.
Ship it to me. I'd love to have it.
The only statement that you have made that is consistent with my personal experience is that regarding sales tax. We are all caught up in that equally. The beef is not with Shopsmith; it is with our own governments (local, state, federal).
If you dislike your Shopsmith so badly maybe you should get rid of it.
Ship it to me. I'd love to have it.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Jbillups,
I am saddended that you your view of shopsmith is so jaded. On the otherhand I am thrilled that my expericence is exactly the opposite of yours.
If possesing a shopsmith is so difficult for you I am certain many of us would be pleased to pay the same price you did.
Best of luck I hope what ever you relpace it with brings you much happiness.
I agree with Dusty on the tax issue. I feel it unfair to saddle individual companies with government intrusion. Perhaps we have only ourselves to blame, after all in our nation we are the government. whoops, sorry I forgot most of us never take that responsibility seriously enough to have our voices heard by those we elect to govern. Jim
I am saddended that you your view of shopsmith is so jaded. On the otherhand I am thrilled that my expericence is exactly the opposite of yours.
If possesing a shopsmith is so difficult for you I am certain many of us would be pleased to pay the same price you did.
Best of luck I hope what ever you relpace it with brings you much happiness.
I agree with Dusty on the tax issue. I feel it unfair to saddle individual companies with government intrusion. Perhaps we have only ourselves to blame, after all in our nation we are the government. whoops, sorry I forgot most of us never take that responsibility seriously enough to have our voices heard by those we elect to govern. Jim
F. Jim Parks
Lakewood, Colorado:)
When the love of power is replaced by the power of love the world will have a chance for survival.
Lakewood, Colorado:)
When the love of power is replaced by the power of love the world will have a chance for survival.
ShopSmith Paper Weight
jbillups: $1000 and a few weeks on CL will build you a whole shop of equipment that makes the SS nothing more than a big paper weight.
And I am sure that the vertical drill press, disk sander, lathe, horizontal borer and table saw you buy with that $1000 will all have been made in the USA ( I state with a small bit of ironey)
Honestly, it really appears the Mark V is not your cup of tea. Put it up on E-Bay, get that $1000 and fill your shop with all that equipment that proves the Shopsmith is "a big paper weight".
Dick
-
scottss
- Gold Member
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:46 am
- Location: Pacific Northwest Washington State
Jbillups I have talked with people like you and no matter what you get you are going to complain. Go ahead and buy this other equipment and lets see if you are satisfied with it and what the longevity will be. Unless it is and older delta or dewalt or a few other brands its just going to be useless rusty old junk sitting in the corner of your shop that you will have to get rid of. At least I can upgrade my shopsmith and stay current. I have never had any problem with cust service and if it cost me a few bucks to purchase a manual to help pay for the print so what. The tax thing is happening for every buisiness out there some are just not being legal about it. It seems that in this day and age people are using the internet to say things that aren't true and are degrading, I am seeing it all over with blogs on this and that. Well I will stop now since I am getting way off. Sorry for venting Keep up the sawdust and stay safe.
-
RobertTaylor
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 560
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:28 am
- Location: North Canton, Ohio
if i were close to you i would pay you double (or even triple) what you paid for your shopsmith.
shopsmith did indeed furnish the original owner an owner's manual. if you didn't get it your beef is with the person you got the shopsmith from, not with the company. however you can purchase one if you wish. they will actually sell it to you. not tell they are looking for it. i see a big difference in customer service compared to your "atlas" comparison.
now let's purchase some repair parts. shopsmith will sell them to you while atlas is still looking for their "obsolete" manual.
with minimal effort you can find about any repair information that you will ever need online for "free". even shopsmith with give free repair advice via a toll free number.
sorry, sounds like i'm ranting but i feel you have not even tried using your free shopsmith and are coming down hard on a great company. chances are the machine that you have will do the tasks at hand without upgrading should you choose not to.
now let's go get some repair parts for that boice-crane saw or the rockwell equipment.
i'm through now, bob
shopsmith did indeed furnish the original owner an owner's manual. if you didn't get it your beef is with the person you got the shopsmith from, not with the company. however you can purchase one if you wish. they will actually sell it to you. not tell they are looking for it. i see a big difference in customer service compared to your "atlas" comparison.
now let's purchase some repair parts. shopsmith will sell them to you while atlas is still looking for their "obsolete" manual.
with minimal effort you can find about any repair information that you will ever need online for "free". even shopsmith with give free repair advice via a toll free number.
sorry, sounds like i'm ranting but i feel you have not even tried using your free shopsmith and are coming down hard on a great company. chances are the machine that you have will do the tasks at hand without upgrading should you choose not to.
now let's go get some repair parts for that boice-crane saw or the rockwell equipment.
i'm through now, bob
Bob
1954 greenie, 1963 anniversary edition now a mini,
1984 500, 1985 510, 1987 510, pro-planer, bandsaw, dust collector
1954 greenie, 1963 anniversary edition now a mini,
1984 500, 1985 510, 1987 510, pro-planer, bandsaw, dust collector
You have all made some very good points, so please allow me to regather my thoughts and express myself in a less offensive and more professional manner.
First off, lets talk manuals. I looked on OWWM for a manual, and there is none. I looked on here, there was links... but they where dead. I have been given free manuals from DeWalt, Ridigid, and Delta. The reason I do not have one for my Atlas yet is because Atlas became Kalamazoo and has moved many times. Trying to find a 50 year manual is a hard task for anyone.
Now with that said, I assume that SS may prevent OWWM from providing manuals. This is my assumtion and maybe incorrect. However, any copyright on that manual is long expired. I feel that providing a manual even in just PDF format is a sign of good faith from a company and makes me more attuned to spend my money with that company.
Bob, I do not feel an upgrade is needed for use as a lathe only, so I think I am good.
Scott, I don't usally complain... just got a bit heated last nite. a chain reaction from things I read.
I just scored a second Boice-Crane for parts so I am good there.
The Atlas 912 was one of the best bandsaws every made, and many Delta parts do fit on it. I do have a copy of the manual in PDF, just though a hard copy would be nice.
My Rockwell jointer is a Tank... and very easy to get parts for.
My Rockwell 32" Radial Drill Press, also a tank... and well enough said
My radial arm saw is a Dewalt, 7730... not to sure how I feel about it yet.
The Boice-Crane and the Atlas came from dad, the other 3 off CL for a totyal of $175
and every single tool was made in america.
as for the tax thing... I have never heard of a company charging out of state customer their local tax.
if paying for paper is the issues thats fine... PDF is free.
First off, lets talk manuals. I looked on OWWM for a manual, and there is none. I looked on here, there was links... but they where dead. I have been given free manuals from DeWalt, Ridigid, and Delta. The reason I do not have one for my Atlas yet is because Atlas became Kalamazoo and has moved many times. Trying to find a 50 year manual is a hard task for anyone.
Now with that said, I assume that SS may prevent OWWM from providing manuals. This is my assumtion and maybe incorrect. However, any copyright on that manual is long expired. I feel that providing a manual even in just PDF format is a sign of good faith from a company and makes me more attuned to spend my money with that company.
Bob, I do not feel an upgrade is needed for use as a lathe only, so I think I am good.
Scott, I don't usally complain... just got a bit heated last nite. a chain reaction from things I read.
I just scored a second Boice-Crane for parts so I am good there.
The Atlas 912 was one of the best bandsaws every made, and many Delta parts do fit on it. I do have a copy of the manual in PDF, just though a hard copy would be nice.
My Rockwell jointer is a Tank... and very easy to get parts for.
My Rockwell 32" Radial Drill Press, also a tank... and well enough said
My radial arm saw is a Dewalt, 7730... not to sure how I feel about it yet.
The Boice-Crane and the Atlas came from dad, the other 3 off CL for a totyal of $175
and every single tool was made in america.
as for the tax thing... I have never heard of a company charging out of state customer their local tax.
if paying for paper is the issues thats fine... PDF is free.
oh yeah.. btw my fustration kind of stems from this...
I feel like every time I ask a question the answer is to just purchase information. I have no problem buying parts from SS if they are made in the USA. I just don't want to have to buy a DVD or pay for a manual. I feel that information should be free. Maybe not a DVD, there are cost involved in that.
either way I express myself poorly and I'd like to admit that I was rude and misdirected my fustration. I am sorry to each of you for doing so.
My reason for being so "made is USA only" is, as a laid off union mason... I can't complain about being out of work if I spend my money on items that support off shore manufacturing and put more americans out of work.
I want to know that every penny I spend (and its almost impossible these days) is benifiting my fellow americans.
And almost every vintage tool has a manual on OWWM except SS.
I feel like every time I ask a question the answer is to just purchase information. I have no problem buying parts from SS if they are made in the USA. I just don't want to have to buy a DVD or pay for a manual. I feel that information should be free. Maybe not a DVD, there are cost involved in that.
either way I express myself poorly and I'd like to admit that I was rude and misdirected my fustration. I am sorry to each of you for doing so.
My reason for being so "made is USA only" is, as a laid off union mason... I can't complain about being out of work if I spend my money on items that support off shore manufacturing and put more americans out of work.
I want to know that every penny I spend (and its almost impossible these days) is benifiting my fellow americans.
And almost every vintage tool has a manual on OWWM except SS.
jbillups,
Buy a computer on the internet from Dell (a Texas company) and they will charge you your local tax, just as ShopSmith does. Not THEIR local tax, YOUR local tax.
New Jersey, where I reside, will take the effort to chase you down if you purchase from out-of-state, pay no tax, and don't report it on your annual tax return. They even query popular companies that do not collect NJ sales tax for NJ purchasers. I am aware that other states also require you to pay tax on out-of-state purchases. ShopSmith is saving some of us the hassle of a penalty if we attempt to cheat the state out of a tax. And be assured that ShopSmith sends a check to those states.
BTW, I don't like paying a sales tax.
Dick
Buy a computer on the internet from Dell (a Texas company) and they will charge you your local tax, just as ShopSmith does. Not THEIR local tax, YOUR local tax.
New Jersey, where I reside, will take the effort to chase you down if you purchase from out-of-state, pay no tax, and don't report it on your annual tax return. They even query popular companies that do not collect NJ sales tax for NJ purchasers. I am aware that other states also require you to pay tax on out-of-state purchases. ShopSmith is saving some of us the hassle of a penalty if we attempt to cheat the state out of a tax. And be assured that ShopSmith sends a check to those states.
BTW, I don't like paying a sales tax.
Dick