Shopsmith Forums

Hi,

I've seen this advertised, I've seen them mention here, I've seen them mentioned there.

My interest has been peaked so I went to the site and did some more reading and watch some of the videos. Some of the demos really turned me off with what they presentation in mjdvdintro, and on many levels.

While watching and reading I was thinking of the many other ways to do the cuts they were showing without being unsafe and without using their product. A few of the operations seem they might be faster done using their product so I still have my mind open.

Then I went to the spitters to have a look at them as it seems the two together is what really makes this a system. Lot's of interesting options and thought to think.

I know it is not a good thing to skim on safety items but the more I look at this stuff the more confused I become. And what looked like a small investment now seems to be getting growing in $$.

Anyone want to bounce some ideas around on the subject??

Ed

reible wrote:.................I know it is not a good thing to skim on safety items but the more I look at this stuff the more confused I become. And what looked like a small investment now seems to be getting growing in $$.

Anyone want to bounce some ideas around on the subject??

Ed

Hi Ed,
I checked their Web site out about a week ago. I was impressed with what they showed, but right now...........let's just say I want to spend what money I am able to on other items. If I had unlimited funding, their products, both the Gripper and the splitter, would definitely be on my shopping list. Along with a lot of other things.

I purchased one of the largest Gripper packages, one of the upgrades and one splitter. I use the splitter with a Shopsmith Zero Clearance solid insert. I have not used it enough on the Shopsmith to comment, I have used it on other saws and found it very safe and easy to use. It is also useful on the jointer and after getting my first (minor) injury with the Shopsmith using the biscuit joiner, of all things, I use it with that.

Is it worth the almost $200 I spent for everything, I can only say I still have all 10 fingers but it does not have a scratch either so it is too soon to tell.

If you are trying to do anything that gets your fingers anywhere near the blade its value goes up.

How is that for a non-answer.

Getting back to the subject of this thread I thought I would provide an update as to what I have found and done since then.

I purchased two of the GRR-ripper 200's and the new steel splitter. The following is a post I did on another site but since you may not have seen it and are/were interested here it is. If you have seen it you can skip this post as it is a copy.

**************************************

Hi,

I have a hand full of projects under way but I thought maybe a few of you would like to see this one.

I'm not going to deal with the safety or lack of but for those interested a company called Micro Jig Inc (www.microjig.com) has come on the woodworking stage in the last few years. One of the products that you may have seen is the GRR-Ripper, the other is the splitter often seen listed as the MJ Splitter.

If you have not seen this and are in the least bit interested check out the web site and look at the videos. One of the videos bugs me but I had to look past that to get where I am today. There are a lot of reviews on the web, some for some against. At this point I have not made up my mind enought to feel really strong in favor but I'm leaning that way.

One of the things on my shopping list this year was a pair of GRR-Rippers and the new steel pro kit. They were on sale and so I have them. For todays discussion I'm dealing with the splitter.

I have in the past purchased and made zero clearance inserts (zci) for the shopsmith. I liked to use tempered hardboard and the thickness of the 1/4" material worked well. The last piece of that material was down to scraps to small to make anymore zci's from. I have been unable to find anyone that has the material in stock and the sheet they sold me of something that looked like a fair skinned version is also skinny and does not work well for the shopsmith.

Having said that I have a few pieces of UHMW plastic that I keep in stock for various uses. In this case I had some 3/8" material to use so I decided to use that for the needed zci.

As you guessed, if you know me at all, I'm always into taking pictures of things. This is no exception. They are at:
*********************************************************
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157605745481869/
*********************************************************
The photos have been removed from Flickr they are now below 12/28/08
*********************************************************

So this posting doesn't get to long let me say they have instuctions that you have to follow that makes a MDF fixture that mounts the MJ fixture that lets you drill the zci. A second MDF fixture helps you pick the splitters to insert. You have four of them and you tune the the effects you want based on material being cut and other factors. So in the first picture you see the finshed project.

In this case I was looking for a deep cut (3") and for use with my thin kerf rip blade (Infinity). You can made several zci's and pick different depths of cut, which then determines how close to the blade the spitters become. Of couse you need to make sure they are labled or you could be cutting into the splitters... not a good thing to do.

I tried to take a shot of how the splitters work. In this case if you really look at it you might be able to tell that one splitter is closer to one side of the cut and the other one is closer to the other side???? Anyway the splitters are off set by nothing or by +, ++, +++ where a + is a change of .003". Now you know why it is hard to see.

The remaining photos show the milling that was required to use the 3/8" material. It was fun seeing all the "snow flakes" the router kicked up.

Lack of much experence with this system keeps me from tell you to run out and get one. In my minds eye I can see it being a good idea. Oh yes I should mention that as a second function the whole thing can be set up so that you have a splitter and a kerf keeper but that is to much for the present.

Oh yes before I forget, you need a kit for "thin" (kerf .090" to .118") and/or "1/8"" version (kerf .118" to .145"). You can't enterchange the splitters between models.

Ed

The above post was some 4 months ago. Since then I have used both the splitter and the GRR-Ripper on several projects. I have not had any splitters pull out, no strange things have happened and I still have all my fingers....

Using this system does seem to work, but it costs a lot so it will not be for everyone. I got mine from Hartville Tool (http://www.hartvilletool.com) as they were on sale and seem to be the best price at the time. I mention this as the new holiday catalog from them has them on sale. The grr-rippers go for 64.98 each and unless you are doing really short stock you need two. I also got the handle bridge set, while it is not on sale at 13.99 in the catalog I don't think it was when I got mine either. That rings up at $157.94. However any orders over $75 ships free.

As I mentioned before they sell a couple of different splitters... after my research I went with the one they call the steel pro kit. Hartville also has them on sale for 24.97. If you are like me and have both a thin and 1/8" blade then you will most likely like me want both. I only purchased one so I hope to find the money to get the other one while it is still on sale. The good news is the sale ends Jan 31 2009 which puts me into next years budget.

The DVD was interesting and if you are like me I wanted to know as much about how to use these as I could so I forked out the 8.99 for it as well.

I can't say it's the perfect solution but I'm glad I have them in my tool kit.

Ed

reible wrote:Getting back to the subject of this thread I thought I would provide an update as to what I have found and done since then.

I purchased two of the GRR-ripper 200's and the new steel splitter. The following is a post I did on another site but since you may not have seen it and are/were interested here it is. If you have seen it you can skip this post as it is a copy.

**************************************

Hi,

I have a hand full of projects under way but I thought maybe a few of you would like to see this one.

I'm not going to deal with the safety or lack of but for those interested a company called Micro Jig Inc (www.microjig.com) has come on the woodworking stage in the last few years. One of the products that you may have seen is the GRR-Ripper, the other is the splitter often seen listed as the MJ Splitter.

If you have not seen this and are in the least bit interested check out the web site and look at the videos. One of the videos bugs me but I had to look past that to get where I am today. There are a lot of reviews on the web, some for some against. At this point I have not made up my mind enought to feel really strong in favor but I'm leaning that way.

One of the things on my shopping list this year was a pair of GRR-Rippers and the new steel pro kit. They were on sale and so I have them. For todays discussion I'm dealing with the splitter.

I have in the past purchased and made zero clearance inserts (zci) for the shopsmith. I liked to use tempered hardboard and the thickness of the 1/4" material worked well. The last piece of that material was down to scraps to small to make anymore zci's from. I have been unable to find anyone that has the material in stock and the sheet they sold me of something that looked like a fair skinned version is also skinny and does not work well for the shopsmith.

Having said that I have a few pieces of UHMW plastic that I keep in stock for various uses. In this case I had some 3/8" material to use so I decided to use that for the needed zci.

As you guessed, if you know me at all, I'm always into taking pictures of things. This is no exception. They are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157605745481869/

So this posting doesn't get to long let me say they have instuctions that you have to follow that makes a MDF fixture that mounts the MJ fixture that lets you drill the zci. A second MDF fixture helps you pick the splitters to insert. You have four of them and you tune the the effects you want based on material being cut and other factors. So in the first picture you see the finshed project.

In this case I was looking for a deep cut (3") and for use with my thin kerf rip blade (Infinity). You can made several zci's and pick different depths of cut, which then determines how close to the blade the spitters become. Of couse you need to make sure they are labled or you could be cutting into the splitters... not a good thing to do.

I tried to take a shot of how the splitters work. In this case if you really look at it you might be able to tell that one splitter is closer to one side of the cut and the other one is closer to the other side???? Anyway the splitters are off set by nothing or by +, ++, +++ where a + is a change of .003". Now you know why it is hard to see.

The remaining photos show the milling that was required to use the 3/8" material. It was fun seeing all the "snow flakes" the router kicked up.

Lack of much experence with this system keeps me from tell you to run out and get one. In my minds eye I can see it being a good idea. Oh yes I should mention that as a second function the whole thing can be set up so that you have a splitter and a kerf keeper but that is to much for the present.

Oh yes before I forget, you need a kit for "thin" (kerf .090" to .118") and/or "1/8"" version (kerf .118" to .145"). You can't enterchange the splitters between models.

Ed

Ed
First let me say those ZCI are fine!!!!!!!!! You are craftsman!!!!!!!

Would you make me one??

Second I don't quite understand the splitter.
The SS 510/520 has a riving knife. If you don't like the upper blade guard or kickback pawls they can easily be removed. If you want a riving knife that is even or below the blade simply cut the SS riving knife. The SS riving knife assembly 514367 is $44.42 if that is more than your willing some flat metal sheet stock and steel cutting blade in a hand held sabre saw or recipocating saw will cut one out in no time. I would imagine any machine shop would fashion one in a less than a half hour using the SS one as a pattern.

With the SS the advantage is you have can leave the riving knife in place for both thru and non through cuts (if you cut it to blade height and since it moves up and down with the blade is is always adjusted for the right height. You can easily adjust it for thick or thin kerf blades and frankly it is a lot sturdier.

As to the griperrrrrr I don't understand that either. Would not the fence straddling SS push block and the flat push block do the same things?????

I'm a major advocate of push blocks, hold downs, riving knifes and such but I see no reason to pay the price of the griperrrr and have to adjust it to accomplish what I can do with the fence straddler, push stick or push block supplied by SS.

Enlighten me
The other Ed

Ok let me take a swing at this... First I could make you zci but it would be a lot more fun for you to make your own. You can save the snow from the plastic to put on the tree this winter.

How the mj splitter works is that you drill a zci, if space allows like it does on the shopsmith you do two sets of holes. You can decide where they are placed like if you want to use a blade exposure of 1" the holes will be just behind the blade... like wise if you want to expose 3" of blade the holes are drilled to keep the splitter close to the blade again. This may require you to have several set ups but it also allows you to custom design the zci for the splitter. Main point here is that it can customized to reduce the distance between blade and splitter.

The hole set closest to the blade is the one always used, the second set of holes gives you the option of using a second splitter, the splitters have different off-sets so you can picking the best fit. When you do this the splitter have the advantage of working like feather boards, that is much different then having a single metal spliter behind the blade that will for the most part have a lot of space around it because it is thinner then the cut. This is how they minimize kickback, that is they keep the stock against the rip fence, and if used in pairs provide the mini feather board effect.

Another option is to put a kerf keeper in the second position. These are designed to pull out if the wood starts to close up during the cut. They stay in the wood and try to keep the kerf open so you can continue your cut. So we see it has several features that a cut off saw guard splitter doesn't have and cheaper at 24.97.

I'll post a follow up later tonight if I can to dissuss the grr-ripper... supper time now... wife is calling... have to go...

Ed

Ed in Tampa wrote:Ed
First let me say those ZCI are fine!!!!!!!!! You are craftsman!!!!!!!

Would you make me one??

Second I don't quite understand the splitter.
The SS 510/520 has a riving knife. If you don't like the upper blade guard or kickback pawls they can easily be removed. If you want a riving knife that is even or below the blade simply cut the SS riving knife. The SS riving knife assembly 514367 is $44.42 if that is more than your willing some flat metal sheet stock and steel cutting blade in a hand held sabre saw or recipocating saw will cut one out in no time. I would imagine any machine shop would fashion one in a less than a half hour using the SS one as a pattern.

With the SS the advantage is you have can leave the riving knife in place for both thru and non through cuts (if you cut it to blade height and since it moves up and down with the blade is is always adjusted for the right height. You can easily adjust it for thick or thin kerf blades and frankly it is a lot sturdier.

As to the griperrrrrr I don't understand that either. Would not the fence straddling SS push block and the flat push block do the same things?????

I'm a major advocate of push blocks, hold downs, riving knifes and such but I see no reason to pay the price of the griperrrr and have to adjust it to accomplish what I can do with the fence straddler, push stick or push block supplied by SS.

Enlighten me
The other Ed

Grr-rippers........ Where to start on this subject......... Let's say we wanted to rip some strips a 1/4" thick. At this point a push stick might have a hard time pushing and kick back becomes more likely. You are at about the limit for the fence straddler so if you go much thinner you are forced to cut on the other side of the blade. No problem but you have to move the fence for each rip. However if you have a grr-ripper you can do the 1/4" cuts with no problem, in fact you can do half that, and no kick back as you are controlling both sides of the cut.

If you want to keep the wood against the fence and you decide to use a push pad then the distance from the rip fence to the blade has to be several inches wide or the width of the push pad. The push pad is also not very far from the blade height wise, plus you can controll only one side of the blade. How about just cutting through the push pad? How many times can you use it after it has had the blade cutting it up?? The g ripper has a tunnel for the blade to pass though and you have support on the wood to both the left and right of the blade, and you are farther from the blade.

You also have the option of building optional parts to expand the use of the g ripper. One of these lets you do a jointing operation on the ruff side of a piece of wood. The g ripper is used against the fence while the woods ruff edge is kept away from the rip fence... the resulting cut, well it cuts off the ruff edge and leaves you with a fresh sawn edge. It also can aid with doing resawing operations... so yes your shopsmith can resaw stock at almost double the amount of blade exposure and only 1/4" thick. Or how about ripping a groove in a round dowel? Yep. Doing bevel cuts? Yep. How would you like to support both sides of the work piece while the table is tilted?

You can also use these at the router table. Don't have a split fence with jointer adjustments? Have no fear the g ripper lets you do full profile cuts. Template routing small parts, no problem. It also helps with do slot cuts...

What else? Works with the bandsaw when resawing veneers (keeps your thumbs away from the end of the stock). Jointer, yep works there too. How about cove cutting on the table saw? Yep.

Are they perfect for just everything??? Are you kidding? I don't see them working for everything but they do work for quite a lot.

Now a lot of other tools can do some of these same things. But very few of them can do all that this can. If you have doubts just buy the DVD and see if the sales people can convince you.

I could go on and on but I'm not in the business of sell these things but rather trying to expose fellow woodworks as to what other things are out there. A must have tool, I can't go that far, but it has it uses and is a lot safer then what a lot of people are now doing... yes I mean putting those fingers in where they should not go. Let the saw wreck a $70 g ripper rather then take a few slices of you. If you say safety first then you will sure want to take another look at these.

Ed

I'll keep this short! .......and

I'll keep and use what I have, thank you.

I too still have all ten fingers and I see no reason to change. The push blocks, push sticks and riving knife work fine.

Ed, you speak of an equipment budget. I find it hard to believe that these cost figures actually fit into a "budget".

Anyone who thinks the Shopsmith is an expensive piece of shop equipment will certainly see these costs as too much for a push block and riving knife.

As I said, I'll keep and use what I have.

I did find your photos of the zci very interesting. You do some really fine work. That zci looked to be professionally done.

Ed
Okay you didn't fall for the suggestion to make me one of your ZCI, shucks!!!:(

Will you tell me how did you do the relief cutting on the bottom side?
I suspect it was done on the OPR using an existing SS insert as a template.

I know how to cut inserts as I have made many from wood but I would really like to make one from the slippery plastic I think 3/8 is a good thickness. I'm trying to think of a way to make the relief cuts you made without access to a OPR.

The only other way I can think of doing this would be to use a pattern maker bit and use a wood spacer to allow the top flange portion to ride above the bit and then have the pattern bearing run on the template and the bit cut the relief.
Not an elegant solution but the only one that I can think of. Or am I missing the obvious which I commonly do?
Ed