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Just wondering why my SS scrollsaw stand has square 1/4-20 nuts. Cheaper, or because of greater surface area?

paulrussell wrote:Just wondering why my SS scrollsaw stand has square 1/4-20 nuts. Cheaper, or because of greater surface area?

Left overs?

Who knows in the 80's world of Shopsmith. Not really a big issue, but I was curious. After making the post I realized surface area probably wasn't the reason, because star washers were used under them, and it is the area of the star washer that makes contact. So I have to figure they were cheap, or left-overs, etc.

My 510 legs also have square nuts to hold on the casters. No star washers. They do come loose every once and a while. I find them (and put them back) when vacuuming up sawdust.

I have only found square nuts holding the legs too. I am sure it was what they had available at the time as I am sure they brought in large lots.

Just a thought, but the places where I know they were used the bolt is tightened to make the connection; the nut is just held in place (hidden or shallow clearance) [except the lower legs portion of the scroll saw so that blows my late night theory!]] therefore are better accessed with a open ended or crescent wrench. Hence a square nut to match the wrench.

Someone (not me) should get JPG to write them to ask for an answer!



Be well,
Ben

benush26 wrote:Just a thought, but the places where I know they were used the bolt is tightened to make the connection; the nut is just held in place (hidden or shallow clearance) [except the lower legs portion of the scroll saw so that blows my late night theory!]] therefore are better accessed with a open ended or crescent wrench. Hence a square nut to match the wrench.

Someone (not me) should get JPG to write them to ask for an answer!



Be well,
Ben

JPG does not feel a need to ask CS for an answer.

Back in the olden days nuts were square.

Occasionally a hex nut was used. Hex nuts are I believe a result of the SAE(auto makers engineers) and their box end and socket wrenches(A model T used monkey wrenches).

Stove 'bolts'/ carriage bolts were the common hardware back then and square nuts were essentially all there was to be had.

Assuming a properly sized wrench(open end), I think more torque can be applied with a square nut.

Some folks consider square nuts to be 'cheap' and undesirable, but IMHO it really does not matter(until you need a wrench to fit). I have 8 point sockets, so I got em covered.

The only disadvantage I can come up with is the 90 vs 60 degree swing (+- wrench offset) required in tight spots. Open end wrenches are usually used with them.

I put nylock hex nuts on every where; when I overhauled my machines and had them apart for painting.

The square nuts in fine thread are hard to find. I have tried. I have even gone to Ace and special ordered them....... only to be told they couldn't get them.

My "upnoth" shopsmith went north with me to be refurbished. I had left it whole because I have a van that fits it fine. One of the projects were the legs, a little rusty along the bottoms and missing paint else where and a few dribbles of extra paint and stain thrown in for good measure.

When I went to take the legs off it was this screw coming loose like normal and the next being a major affair. Same with the caster brackets. A PO had forced things when attempting to put things together. There were a mix of fine thread and std thread in both places, and both sides of the fasteners. In a few cases they were matched and those were the easy ones, the rest, well he got them to fit.

If I ever come across some 1/4x28 square nuts I'd like to replace the 1/4-20's I had to install in most places to replace the damaged ones. Just a personal thing.

As has been mentioned there is nothing wrong with square nuts and in some places they are the preferred nut especially where the are held in place by casting webs etc.

In my early days as a designer we were pretty free to use what ever fasteners we wanted. Later like most companies we started reducing the numbers of different types to take advantage of ordering, storage, assembly, this is some times called "best practices". We also color coded metric fasteners. Things like square nuts were special order and non-preferred. In fact nuts are a last course and only used when no better way can be found to fasten things together.

I once spent a year doing this sort of thing, the factory uses say 700,000 10-32 x 3/8 screws, they use only 100,000 10-32 x 1/4 can they use all 3/8 long ones? I had to look in to the usage to see if that change would be an issue and if not I would add that information allowing the use of either. The factory people would then do there thing to see if there were any saving to be had. And you though be an engineer was a fun job....

Ed

reible wrote: If I ever come across some 1/4x28 square nuts I'd like to replace the 1/4-20's I had to install in most places to replace the damaged ones. Just a personal thing.

Ed

Can ya use 3,000 of them?

http://www.amazon.com/Square-Machine-Sc ... B000NMJ70O