Shopsmith Forums

OK the prostate. A very male glad that has been a problem for a long time. Even Ben Franklin had a glass catheter made for himself, so this problem has been around for a while.

Disclaimer and Warning: I am going to discuss: the male anatomy, in generic terms, and problems before and after procedures men face and will face. This discussion will deal with incontinence, impotency, surgery, drugs, and other issues so if these subjects make you uncomfortable, just move on to another thread ....


My story;

About 20 years ago, I was awarded a contract that literally took my company(s) to the next level. It was a short lived contract, but it started a domino effect for the next 20 years until I retired. Within weeks of receiving that contract, I started having symptoms of BPH (see below). I was in a health food store a few months later and saw a display for Bell's Tea, an herbal remedy for BPH. I bought some and in a few weeks I was back to almost normal (not back to normal, but almost). It started me on a search for better herbal remedies and let me maintain a very functional lifestyle for the next 2 decades. A year ago, I was sued by my ex business partner. Withing a week I was getting up 5 times a night and was having pain, retention, all of the symptoms of acute BPH. As I worked through the law suit and eventually won the suit, my symptoms did diminish but never like before I got sued (see a pattern?). About a year later (March 31 of this year) I went into full retention within a 24 hour period, wound up in the hospital with clotting in the bladder and emergency surgery to just get the problem solved. I am on the downhill side of that now, and I truly see myself looking back on this as just a speed bump and a lost of a few months of time.

There are 5 things areas of information I learned that I want to pass on:

1 The prostate itself
2 procedures available
3 medications
4 side effects
5 prevention

Much of this info you can get from the interwebs which I did pre problem, I still didn't really have a clue until I actually went through my Odyssey even after much research and talking with herbalists and others, so hopefully I can help some of you make some better informed choices ....

Prostate:

The prostate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate is the anatomical unit of interest. I will say up front, even with what I have gone through, I would still have done it the same way. I wouldn't have changed anything.
Now, yes, I was in a life threating condition initially when I went into full retention. Couldn't pass a drop, and I waited to long to get help. That was my fault and I could have prevented that. Stubborn cowboy redneck ... what can I say Other than my extreme situation, I would have opted for the surgery I had. My more serious than normal problem stemmed mostly from the fact that I started bleeding in the bladder because of the scope procedure that was done after a quick try at pharmacology (more later) therapy which didn't work. My "problem" wasn't actually discovered until they did an ultra sound (through the anus) and found the size to be extreme. I find that curious, as I have had full FAA physicals every 2 years for the last 20 years because I am a pilot, and this problem was never found, or even hinted at. So, lesson learned is that as uncomfortable as it is was (really not that bad mostly mental) you need to get a true picture of your gland with an ultrasound or equivalent, I think that would pay off in spades. Retention testing has it's place and I done that before and after the procedure, but knowing the size in pictures is invaluable. I think most urologists will be glad to perform the ultrasound.

The prostate is going to grow (BPH) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_pro ... edications. There is nothing really that can be done to prevent it. It CAN be prolonged with the many herbal remedies (which is what I ultimately found out that I did), but it will eventually get us all. Some just more than others, and some sooner than later.

Procedures:

The medical industry (I no longer call it a profession) has many many tools to work with. The first line of offense, and is an offense influenced heavily by the corporate pharmaceutical companies, is drugs. OK, lets talk drugs. Just say no. It is your body, the drugs have just as bad, and most importantly more, side effects as the procedures. So if you have the option (remember this is your body) talk with your doctor about a TURP procedure as the starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transureth ... e_prostate. The TURP procedures (and the link give the other complimentary procedures) works and has worked well for decades. The down side (coming from my surgeon) is that you may need it again at some point in the future. Still a good choice IMO, The side effects (from wiki) are:

Bleeding (most common). Bleeding may be reduced by pre-treatment with an anti-androgen such as finasteride or flutamide
Clot retention and clot colic
Bladder wall injury such as perforation (rare)
TURP Syndrome: Hyponatremia and water intoxication (symptoms resembling brain stroke in an elderly presenting patient) caused by an overload of fluid absorption (e.g. 3 to 4 Litres) from the open prostatic sinusiods during the procedure. This complication can lead to confusion, changes in mental status, vomiting, nausea, and even coma. To prevent TURP syndrome the 1) length of the procedure is limited to less than one hour in many centers, and 2) the height of the container of irrigating solution above the surgical table determining the hydrostatic pressure driving fluid into the prostatic veins and sinuses is kept to a minimum.[6]
Bladder neck stenosis
Urinary incontinence due to injury of external sphincter system which may be prevented by taking the Verumontanum of the prostate as a distal limiting boundary during TURP
Retrograde ejaculation due to injury of preprostatic (internal) sphincter system
Additionally, transurethral resection of the prostate is associated with a low risk of mortality.

Medication:

The medications that are prescribed are basically what they call Alpha Blockers The two main medications for management of BPH are alpha blockers and 5α-reductase inhibitors. They have a small to moderate benefit. The short time I was on an alpha blocker, I had symptoms of a severe head cold. They did nothing for me (thank God). Most of the above side effects are also present with the meds plus you get to feel like you have the flu all the time .....

Side effects:

Post operative (all procedures) side effects, usually short term are short lived impotency, and incontinence (yes I am dealing with incontinence now, but I am told that it will go away in a few weeks). Some cases of long term impotency and incontinence are possible, but are also possible with the medications. After being released from the hospital, I had an appointment with my surgeon a week later. I had had nocturnal erections (seemingly constantly ) since the catheter was pulled. So I asked him "are nocturnal erections significant" .... He answered "ALL erections are significant ... ". My wife mumbled significance depends on whether you are the erectee or the erector ...... Got to love her! Anyway, back on track, there is a risk, though slight, of permanent impotency and incontinence. Usually other factors are involved for those to rear their ugly head .. no pun .....

Prevention:

I am told I couldn't have prevented this. I think regular checkups and ultrasounds are a good idea. I wouldn't do anything until you are having life style problems because of BPH.

I also think that the simple prostatectomy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostatectomy would be my choice again. It is a procedure that goes through the bladder (punctures) and cleans out the prostate like scooping out an orange thus shrinking the gland. It leaves everything else intact. My surgeon told me that all of the South American countries this is the only procedure available. It is the most "bang for the buck" procedure going. The side effects are no different than the other procedures, and the only down side is hospitalization (because of incision) instead of sometimes outpatient. If you have this choice available to you, make sure you plan to have your own blood available (drawn over a few weeks before the procedure) to prevent you from having foreign blood in case of the need for a transfusion. That is important, really important.

That's it, I hope it helped some of you.

I will answer any questions I can, but I really can't give advise obviously!

Edit: Oh yeah, thanks Dennis because of this post http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/commu ... 16288.html ,

If the docs do as good a job of restoring your hardware as you did your 10ER's, you will be better than new in short order! (And your machinery is just about the same vintage, if memory serves.)

By freak coincidence, I am sitting in an exam room right now for my own annual PM. I always hate the prostrate exam part, but somehow I just didn't mind it as much this year.

Get well soon!

I have had a recurring dream (twice) about my "parts" being Verde green and silver post operation ....

My personal story may be worse only because is contains the "C" word.

Soon after diagnosed with cancer I chose to go to Loma Linda Medical Center for Proton destruction of the cancer. Every day (6 days/Week) I got some protons from their accelerator. This only took less than an hour including the wait in line for my turn. The treatments lasted only minutes. The rest of each day Wife and I went shopping and sightseeing. Some guys played golf. I did a little wood carving.

Cancer destroyed. End of Story.

It's now been 7 years with absolutely no bad effects.

charlese, you amaze me. This all happened while you were active on this forum and there is no hint of this anywhere on the forum.

Congratulations on being a survivor.

I too have been dealing with an enlarged prostate for many years. I was diagnosed while still working for Rockwell. Over the coarse of the years since diagnosis, I have had three biopsies all of which were negative.

Recently, I have had a problem voiding. Actually, this is a long time problem that has just gotten worse. It recently raised its' ugly head with a bad UTI. My current urologist decided to perform a number of tests to quantify the situation. For over a month now, I have been collecting and measuring all discharge. The doctor says the resulting pattern will help him to decide how he wants to address the future treatments.

In the beginning of this process, I was failing to void a daily quantity of about 1800ml (the volume I cathetered). Recently, that number has been reduced to about 1000ml. The urologist says a minimally acceptable number would be less than 300ml. All of this indicates that I am going to have some sort of surgery. The final prognosis will likely happen in the next two weeks.

I had a close family member diagnosed with prostrate cancer. He had his removed. Another family member a nurse told him to store up some blood since prostrate surgery is known as the bloodiest surgery. He did and he used all the blood he had stored.

End result lost of the ability to get an erection, incontinence which exists to this day about 10 years after surgery.
He experienced severe recovery pain but since this was his only surgery there is no way to judge if the pain was worst of other surgery or not.

I also have a close friend have othoscopic (sp?) surgery. his was less bloody, recovery was quicker but he had the same results. Incontinence and lost of the ability to get an erection. Both were in their 70's and both had elevated PSA results that alerted the doctor to the problem.

Have your PSA checked regularly and have a rectal prostate exam each year. None of this is fun but it may save you from a lot of grief.

Do not put all of your faith and hope in PSA results. When I was first diagnosed in 1992 with an enlarged benign prostate, I had a PSA of 4.3. This triggered all sorts of concern but a biopsy indicated no cancer. I have had at least one PSA test every year since then and the numbers are all over the place; the highest being 11.6 in March of 2006. I have had a total of three biopsies and they were all negative.

My erratic PSA numbers are the result of nothing more than an enlarged prostate. My most recent PSA was 5.23.

Unfortunately, that enlarged prostate is now creating problems by disrupting the free flow of urine. I do not void unless I catheter. I now catheter three times a day.

dusty wrote:charlese, you amaze me. This all happened while you were active on this forum and there is no hint of this anywhere on the forum.

Congratulations on being a survivor.

Thanks for the congrats! However,Shucks, Dusty! Like posted, I had 23 hours of free time every day. There was no stress - literally. Felt absolutely no health changes. Also, insurance paid the entire cost.

The cancer treatment was really like a vacation

We lived in our motorhome for a month or so and only needed a small trip to the hospital daily.

If anyone has prostate cancer, I certainly recommend Loma Linda Camcer treatment. We had guys from all over the U.S. and Canada while I was a participant.

Thank you guys for adding to this! I think the consensus in my mind is that we men need to take control of our prostate health. Get proactive with the testing and what your doctor is doing and asking for. They don't own you, you are paying a professional to perform activities that pertain to your health. Control the situation. That is my advise. Most of these problems can be prevented if started with early diagnosis of these problems.

JMHO and the purpose of me starting this thread .....

rjent wrote:. I was in a health food store a few months later and saw a display for Bell's Tea, an herbal remedy for BPH. I bought some and in a few weeks I was back to almost normal (not back to normal, but almost). It started me on a search for better herbal remedies and let me maintain a very functional lifestyle for the next 2 decades.

Thank you for sharing your experience and research.
Could you elaborate on the "better herbal remedies" you found.
I have noted myself sitting while voiding helps and that caffeine (tea or coffee) can result in better flow, but any other ways to postpone the inevitable would be appreciated.
Best wishes
Ron

rpd wrote:

rjent wrote:. I was in a health food store a few months later and saw a display for Bell's Tea, an herbal remedy for BPH. I bought some and in a few weeks I was back to almost normal (not back to normal, but almost). It started me on a search for better herbal remedies and let me maintain a very functional lifestyle for the next 2 decades.

Thank you for sharing your experience and research.
Could you elaborate on the "better herbal remedies" you found.
I have noted myself sitting while voiding helps and that caffeine (tea or coffee) can result in better flow, but any other ways to postpone the inevitable would be appreciated.
Best wishes
Ron

I wound up using a product from Pure Essence Labs called Prostate Essence here is an Amazon link ... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007IJ ... UTF8&psc=1 . take them regularly and it seems to help. The theory is that the herbs in the product simply keep blood flow to the prostate (as well as elsewhere) and the support the cleansing of the tissue of the prostate. You can get more info from Pure Essence Labs here: http://www.pureessencelabs.com . The herbal industry has gotten almost unwieldy in the last decade or so, so claims many times over shadow actual results. I am not recommending this product, I just think it worked for me I would recommend you try Bells Tea as well. http://www.belllifestyleproducts.ca/fre ... men-4a.htm I know it worked for me, the pills were just easier ....

Make sure you report back here as to whether the above helped or not