Shopsmith Forums

Hello lovely forum folks -

OK, here's my situation. I have never (ever) worked in wood before. I am a complete neophyte. I've got a long-term hobby project in mind and I've always been fascinated by the idea of woodworking, so I'm going to take the plunge. I literally have like ZERO room to work in, so a SS is my only option.

What I'd like to do is make scroll saw portraits in 3/4" hardwoods, with handmade shallow shadow-box type frames, more than likely also hardwood. Since my consumer is likely to be extremely exacting and picky, I need my tools to help me produce exacting work.

I've read until my head is ready to explode and I think I've figured out what I'm looking for in a SS. I can't afford new, so I'm looking at used machines. I'm leaning toward a late-ish-model - 520? The machine would have to be very nearly if not totally plug-n-play. I really don't want to mess with rebuilding anything. Obviously, a little fine surface rust is expected and easy to deal with, so that's not an obstacle. I think the add-ons that I need would be the jointer, the thickness planer, the mitre guage, a couple of floating tables, good fences, a band saw, a belt sander and the universal tool holder for playing with the lathe (I won't need the lathe for my project, but I've always wanted to mess with one).

So, my questions are thus:

1. Since I have no CLUE what I'll actually need, do any of you more experienced folks see where I missed something crucial in the way of accessories? (I have a great scroll saw, so I don't need the SS one)

2. Are any of the accessories that I've mentioned less than worthwhile?

3. What can I expect to pay for this puppy used?

All comments are hugely appreciated! Thanks!

Barb B.
Washington, DC

Welcome to the forum. A lot of good people here with a lot of experience.

I will try to answer some of your questions from my experience and am certain you will get a lot of feedback from others.

The best place to look for used SS's are on Ebay, Craigs list and local throw aways. A quick study of these will give you current prices on the used market. There are a lot of used 510's out there that are an easy conversion to 520's (SS has the upgrade kit P/N 555982 or 555983 depending on the year the 510 is built) A used 520 at this time are still a rare item. The 510 would take care of your floating table, miter gauge and fence and the 520 conversion will upgrade the fence.

I have always been pleased with the SS accessories that I have purchased, most of which were purchased on the used market. Although if you plan on upgrading to the purchases as I did you need to watch the price as you can spend almost as much for an upgraded used machine as you can new.

The planer: On the plus side you have wide variety of speed for both the speed of the blades and the feed rate of the board being planed. Plus the blades can be sharpened at home with the SS sharpening jig. Other units on the market only give you feed rate control and usually only two or three speeds. The down side is the SS is one of the most expensive on the market.

The Belt Sander: I love mine. It was built in the late 50's by the original builder of SS accessories (Magma) and is still going strong. SS has only made one change to the original design and that was just a larger dust chute.

The Band Saw: (This is one to watch the price of upgrades on) It works really good for me. Especially compared to the small Craftsman I use to have.
Easy to adjust the blade tension, quick blade changes, and easy to make accurate cuts. I don't have it but Kreg makes a fence for it that looks really good. If you get a used one with the small cast iron table is where it gets costly to upgrades if you want to make them. I could have almost bought new for the same cost but then I really got to know my machines by doing upgrades, maintenance and adjustments to the used equipment i bought.

A big plus for SS equipment that I have to point out is for the most part it is easy to work on, a little mechanical ability is all it takes not an engineering degree. An ability you will need no matter what brand of equipment you buy as they all require maintenance and adjustment to work right. SS equipment comes with very good set up and maintenance manuals and if purchased without the manuals SS has them available for purchase. A very big plus for SS is the equipment is made in the USA with most repair parts (if needed) available only a phone call or click away with very good customer service.

The SS website now have videos available to see their machines in operation and the Sawdust Sessions put on by the SS academy are a great learning tool and available at this link http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Sawdust_Sessions.htm

Best of Luck

Walt

barbandrob wrote: I've read until my head is ready to explode and I think I've figured out what I'm looking for in a SS. I can't afford new, so I'm looking at used machines. I'm leaning toward a late-ish-model - 520? The machine would have to be very nearly if not totally plug-n-play. I really don't want to mess with rebuilding anything. Obviously, a little fine surface rust is expected and easy to deal with, so that's not an obstacle. I think the add-ons that I need would be the jointer, the thickness planer, the mitre gauge, a couple of floating tables, good fences, a band saw, a belt sander and the universal tool holder for playing with the lathe (I won't need the lathe for my project, but I've always wanted to mess with one).

So, my questions are thus:

1. Since I have no CLUE what I'll actually need, do any of you more experienced folks see where I missed something crucial in the way of accessories? (I have a great scroll saw, so I don't need the SS one)

2. Are any of the accessories that I've mentioned less than worthwhile?

3. What can I expect to pay for this puppy used?

All comments are hugely appreciated! Thanks!

Barb B.
Washington, DC

I have the Shopsmith jointer which I have yet to use and a thickness planer and depending on what you want to do are purchases you might want to wait on. The Sand Flee is something you might want to consider.

I have never seen a used 520 but that is not to say they don't exist. I would recommend you look for a 510 or a late model 500, if you are going to use the lathe you want a two bearing quill and I recommend a third party tool rest (they are much harder they the Shopsmith version) to be used with the Shopsmith universal tool rest (banjo).

The more rust and the older the unit the less you should pay, some have recommended you should offer $0 after all you are hauling it away.

The accessories depend on what you want to do, while I have never used my jointer it gets used a lot by friends the planer is used my me and friends. For the first 10 years I owned the bandsaw it collected dust, the the past few years it is used daily.

This of the Shopsmith as a jig that can be used for may purposes, what do you want to do with it?

I'll wade into this with a little different tack. Assuming, by Scroll saw portraits, you mean silhouettes of people. To me 3/4" seems pretty wide for a silhouette, so that's maybe not what you mean.

Never having sawn a piece of wood, and wanting a plug-and-play machine (a (Shopsmith Mark V) for less than full cost are frankly, not things that are going to lead to quick success.
The 520 and the 510 are multipurpose tools that require some learning. As you can see in this Forum, many who have bought or inherited used Mark Vs have searched and worked a bit to get them performing. The good news is parts and help is available.

However, if you only want (and envision) doing this one thing - portraits - I have to recommend the Shopsmith is probably not the right tool for you. I recommend going down to you nearest Sears store and take a look at a CompuCarve. The CompuCarve is also sold as "CarveWright" Also look up both of those machines on the INTERNET. This Computer aided 3-D carving machine is capable of doing the portraits as well as the shadow boxes. At prices of $1,600 to $1,900 this will be more in your ball park.

Depending on your wood supply sources, you may require a thickness planer to make your wood the right size. But you can sell your scroll saw to help pay for it.

Good Morning and welcome to the Forum.

Although like most of us, it is normal to want a plug and play machine, however, with Shopsmith, this is not going to be the case and this is not bad. Shopsmith equipment is different and you must recognize that and embrace it. Although I think the table saw is the weak link in the system, there are ways around anything. The good thing about Shopsmith is that is allows you the owner to become intimately involved with the machine in its setup. Please view that as a big plus as it allows you to become truly ONE with your machinery. Never be afraid to explore every nuance of your equipment. Take it apart, put it together again, learn what every part does. Once you get past your fears of what you don't know will allow you to become a much better woodworker and enjoy your hobby rather than dread some part of it. Actually, after a while, adjusting some part of your machine to make it better becomes a way of life and is just plain satisfying. Oh, by the way, plug in that DeWalt Scroll Saw. It's an awsome machine.

Barb,

I'll agree with Chuck, 3/4 Hardwood for scroll saw profiles is a little thick. 1/4 or 3/16 Baltic Birch ply with no voids would be a better bet. This is NOT what you will find at the big box stores, and it is not cheap. But many scroll sawers use it.

If 3/4 is a must, then a hand held or an Overarm Pin Roouter (OPR) would be a good choice to hog out a bunch of wood, then finish out with the scroll saw.

For the frames and the boxes, you will need good clean 45 degree cuts. The miter gauge will do this for you, or the cross cut sliding table: http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... gtable.htm
The incra sleds or the jointech smart miter are great, but expensive and unnecessary for just 45 degree cuts.

Unless these boxes are fairly large, you shouldn't need the floating tables. Which might mean you could get by with a 500 if you can find one in good condition. 510 or 520 is better for table size, but you are indicating a limited budget.

Since you don't have much space, I don't see much reason to have a bandsaw for what you have outlined. For general learning with the lathe, what comes with the SS is more than sufficient. So the tool rest could also be put off. They can be bought later.

The jointer is a good purchase, and one I have use a lot. I set up with the jointer and Saw both on the headstock, and have gone 6-8 hours jointing boards with this setup, stopping only to empty the dust collection bag. (and eating.)

And that is one thing you have not mentioned - dust collection. The DC3300 is great for this kind of setup, but a large shop vac will do for starters. Just make sure that you empty it as needed.

I love my Pro Planer. With sharp blades, the wood can come out ready for 220 sandpaper. And SS does have the sharpening jig for the blades. There are also some decent table top planers out there that sell for less and do a fairly decent job.

I don't have the belt sander (yet), but use a hand held belt sander. That might be another savings to start out with.

Since you've never cut wood, a class would be a good start. The Sawdust sessions would also give you some ideas and some things to practice on. If you have a local Woodcraft, you might look up some lessons from them. Since you are in D.C., you might be able to get to Dayton for the owners weekend or even the classes. If nothing else, the Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone (PTWFE) book is great for self-teaching. Also any of Nick Engler's books.

Good luck,

Hawk

Thanks, all, for taking the time to respond and for the welcome.

I'm going to try to describe my project better, but bear with me, as I'll probably do a lousy job. What I'm talking about is not a silhouette, although I've seen them, so that might be fun too. What I'm looking to do is sort of an abstract portrait, where, if you get up close, all you see are small, highly irregular holes that don't make much sense, but when you step away, the likeness is very obvious and somehow very accurate. I would have to generate the patterns myself, using photos and picture-editing software. I've seen a few of these and they fascinate me and I have, what I think to be a nice little niche market for them here in DC (I know that I'm not going to be making two dimes, so I'm not delusional). I may well be mis-guesstimating the thickness of the wood, though. I do know that they're using a heavier thickness than I've seen for the full cut-out silhouettes. Hope that makes sense. I'll try to come up with a picture, but I'll have to get permission and all that rot.

By plug-n-play, I honestly don't mean perfect. I know that the machine will need plenty of TLC and that I'll have lots to learn and lots of hands-on maintenence for the life of the machine. I'm actually looking forward to pampering it and learning everything I possibly can about the workings of it. I just don't want to start out with a mechanical project when what I really want to do is get my hands in some sawdust. Obviously, since I need to find a used machine for financial considerations, I will have to pick and choose - that's a given. I'm just really hoping to get one that is not much more than a clean up, lube up, light rust removal type deal as possible. You know the type - he bought it 10 or 15 years ago with all the good intentions in the world, joyously wigged out on accessories, etc. Got to use it a couple of times, but then life got in the way and it's sat in the garage, tragically forgotten and unused ever since, being nothing more than a nag point for his wife. THAT'S my machine! LOL! Sitting under two inches of dust, with rotting boxes of doodads, just waiting for me. Am I delirious? It looks like I'm looking at between $1,000 - $2,000+ for this gem in the rough, depending on what it comes with. Oy. Less would be good too. LOL

I do have a Woodcraft nearby and, although I haven't visited yet, I am set up for a basic scroll saw class in July. I'll look at their class schedule and see if there's a basic woodworking class coming up. Thanks for the suggestion, Hawk! You can be sure I'll be checking out the online vids and every book I can get my hands on that is reccomended as being decent. I ordered the accessories catalog and the Mark V information package last night, so that should be fun.

I have a great big Shop Vac that I use in my home jewelry studio, so I had planned on using that for my little woodworking gig.

I do think that the projects will end up large enough to justify extra table space, but I could be wrong. They will be large hanging presentation boxes, probably in the 24" by 36" range (the portrait itself would be much smaller), with the possibility of going a bit larger - depending on what the customer wants.

Chuck, thanks for your input. I get where you're coming from. The truth is, I do envision LOTS of other things I'd like to mess with in the way of woodworking. I've been thinking about working in wood for most of my 41 years, so I could come up with tons of projects. That's why I want the bandsaw and the goodies for the lathe. I'm sure my brain will keep frying with ideas for the ShopSmith, but I'm really trying to focus on this project for the time being - so that I have half a chance of getting some sleep. Having an overactive imagination is a curse. Trust me, I have lusted after the CompuCarve since it first showed up on the scene. Although I think the concept is way too fun and watching it work is a BLAST, I think shrinking the CNC technology down to home-size has come with some difficulties and I'd like to see the bugs worked out. ShopSmith has been around for eons, so I think I'll have a less frustrating ride AND I'd really like to do the work myself. That's kinda the whole idea. Having a computer do it feels like cheating (no offense intended to those who cheat... LOL)

Two more questions for me, if you don't mind...

1. The 510 has been made forever. Are certain year ranges better than others?

2. OK, probably dumb question, but what the heck is the difference between a jig saw and a scroll saw? (the table version of each)

Man, this has gotten long. I'm sorry. I do tend to go on. I hope I've addressed your concerns. Sorry I was vague in my first post. BTW, Arno, believe me, I ACHE to fire up my 788. I've only had it for a few weeks and I can't start it up until my teeny little space is fixed up. It's in my kitchen presently... ::::

I think you said you have an opportunity to purchase a Shopsmith and a pile of undefined goodies for between $1000-$2000. Depending on what is in those boxes of goodies, this seems a bit high to me.

Now I'm sort of shooting in the dark. The machine might be a relatively new one and the goodies might be all of the normal accessories and SPT (Special Purpose Tools). That would make this more of a steal.

Do you know (or can you determine) the serial number of the Shopsmith and are you able to better define the contents of those dusty boxes.

barbandrob wrote:...
Two more questions for me, if you don't mind...

1. The 510 has been made forever. Are certain year ranges better than others?

2. OK, probably dumb question, but what the heck is the difference between a jig saw and a scroll saw? (the table version of each)

O.K.! Nice post and reply! Thanks, Barb!
I see you really want to get hold of a Shopsmith Mark V and some accessory tools. Hat is off to you! It is a wonderful woodworking machine. Better yet it has been described (quite properly) as a big woodworking jig.

The Mark V 510 was introduced in 1985 ref: http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/markv.htm

Shopsmith still sells new 510s I think all years of 510s are equal - at least when new. The 520 came along a little later. It is an improved 510. The improvement amounts to newly designed table rails and an improved fence that fits these rails. Other than that, there is no difference, other than the fence straddler for the 520 is wider in order to fit over the wider fence. That said, the 510 will do everything a 520 will with equal accuracy. The 510 fence is also very stable, but is a bit harder to adjust(align).

If you can get a 510 in good shape - jump at it! You can always up-grade if you wish. (I drive a 510 and am very satisfied with it.)

I see $3200 for a brand new Mark V 510 You would need the "expanded table system for your 36" projects.

A jig saw is another name for a saber saw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_saw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jig_saw

You will be needing to get your wood square. The first accessory (SPT)tool I recommend is a jointer.

Okay.

Jig saw. Think of a hand held jig saw like a Bosch, upside down in a table. Blade is powered from one end.

Scroll saw. Blade is powered from both ends, which makes for smoother cuts. It also enables the blades to be thinner for tighter corners.

Shop vac. Make sure you have a very good filter made for sawdust. Fine sawdust can kill your machine in a hurry.

A 510 is a 510. There was a problem with a few. But it can be corrected. Do a search on "trunnion".

Also you are more liable to find one with just one or two SPT's. Decide which ones you will need and leave the rest for later unless you find a better deal. It just makes for more options.

Hope this helps.

Hawk