Shopsmith Forums

I completed the do-it-yourself 510 to PowerPro upgrade earlier this week, and I am having a problem with it that I was hoping someone would have a fix for.

I am using the table saw and jointer to create some 1" square cross-section staircase spindles out of 5/4 white oak. Whether I am sawing or using the jointer, every 20 minutes to half hour, the machine stops with an RPS Error0 condition. It will not restart, despite having cleaned out the sensor area under the rotor as per the troubleshooting manual. But if I shut the machine off and walk away for a half hour, when I power it up, it works just fine.

I called Customer Service, and was told by a polite lady that that was an issue when running continuously at higher speeds (3450 RPM? On a system whose primary design use is as a table saw at that speed?). Needless to say, I'm not particularly happy with that answer. I subsequently sent an email form through the website describing the problem more than a day ago and have not received a response.

Doing forum and web searches, I can find others mentioning having an occasional RPS problem, but nothing like the regular problem I'm experiencing. Does anyone else really have this problem, or there something wrong with my new motor controller? If it is truly a known, regular problem, has anyone come up with a fix?

I want to keep using the PowerPro, but if I can't reliably use it as a table saw for more than a half hour every hour, it's of little value to me in my home shop.

Sorry to here your problem, he is having the same when routeing.
http://shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maintenan ... 18352.html

ERLover wrote:Sorry to here your problem, he is having the same when routeing.
http://shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maintenan ... 18352.html

He's getting a different error message that actually indicates overheating rather rotor position sensor failure, and is pushing his unit to its limits, routing at maximum speed in a warm room.

I'm operating at a mere 3450 RPM, in an air conditioned shop maintained at 68F. And the machine quits even when just idling. I'm really scratching my head over the cuistomer service rep saying "that's normal".

Sorry, I thought a similar problem. I will stick with my ERs.

Shug wrote:

ERLover wrote:Sorry to here your problem, he is having the same when routeing.
http://shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maintenan ... 18352.html

He's getting a different error message that actually indicates overheating rather rotor position sensor failure, and is pushing his unit to its limits, routing at maximum speed in a warm room.

I'm operating at a mere 3450 RPM, in an air conditioned shop maintained at 68F. And the machine quits even when just idling. I'm really scratching my head over the cuistomer service rep saying "that's normal".

Now how would I have known that by your first post???

Shug wrote:...I want to keep using the PowerPro, but if I can't reliably use it as a table saw for more than a half hour every hour, it's of little value to me in my home shop.

Sorry about your problem. I understand your frustration.

My suggestion for a quicker answer is to Phone Shopsmith again and ask to speak with Wes Powell or Jim McCann.

Wes is their guy for programming the PowerPro and may be able to talk you through re-programing for a fix. Jim mcCann is their engineer.

Wes is not usually readily available, but will return your call about 5:00PM Eastern time. (my experiance)

Jim may ask you to return you headstock for repair, but if you are lucky he may be able to send you a new part and ask you to return the replaced one.

Wes may also be able to diagnose your problem and ship you a replacement part.



Note to ERLover:
Not the same error message at all.

Thanks for the names. I'll try try to get in touch with Wes or Jim next week.
From the lack of responses of "I have that problem, too", I'm guessing the behavior of my PowerPro is not normal, regardless of what the lady on the phone at Customer Service said.

Shug wrote:Thanks for the names. I'll try try to get in touch with Wes or Jim next week.
From the lack of responses of "I have that problem, too", I'm guessing the behavior of my PowerPro is not normal, regardless of what the lady on the phone at Customer Service said.

The information and instructions that you will receive from Customer Service are normally very reliable and accurate. However, there are some new folks there and you have to be cautious. If what you are told doesn't sound right or doesn't seem to work for you - question the validity. Call them back for verification. Be specific. Generic questions/answers can lead to misinformation.

That goes for the information that you get here on the forum as well. Here on the forum there are many users with various degrees of experience and exposure to the many different hardware configurations. Sometimes the vintage of your machine will make a difference. Make sure you know what you have and that the information being given to you is applicable to your machine.

Shug
Can you go inside the unit and unplug and re-plug in all of the cable assemblies. It sounds as if something is getting slightly warm and losing a contact in the process. Sometimes disconnect and reconnect will cure a faulty connector. Just may be worth your while.
Bill V

It is true the more you know about how it works conceptually, the better understanding you will have regarding comments that resonate or lack resonance with your situation.

Teknatool manufactures the Shopsmith DVR system for Shopsmith. I have the Teknatool manual in PDF if you would like it.

The following quote comes from Teknatool relative to their DVR Lathe sold by Nova.
---
"Overview - The DVR integrated electrical drive system contains the DVR motor with the Rotor Position Sensor (RPS), the drive control board and the human-machine interface (HMI). The control board, RPS and HMI represent the control system of the drive. The DVR is connected with the control board by six power wires and RPS cable.

The control board contains power input devices - input rectifier, power factor corrector with the DC link reactor, three-phase inverter and the control circuit based on the 16-bit Infineon microcontroller.

The HMI contains the interface board, the LCD and keyboard. The interface board is based on the 8051 family Atmel microcontroller and connected with the control board through the insulated serial RS232 interface.

Both microcontrollers have flash program memory. The interface board microcontroller also contains the EEPROM memory in order to change and store the drive parameters. The control system has been specifically designed for control flexibility and to provide optimal drive performance."
---

I have attached two documents that discuss the Remote Position Sensor (RPS) which has some relevancy I suspect to a Crankshaft Position Sensor on a car, where they discuss issues with their sensor and some remediation.

Because this is a new Shopsmith system under warranty (which may well go back to Teknatool for warranty repair if they exchange it for you), I would never attempt to take these steps in your situation.

Should Shopsmith however direct you to do something similar, I would follow those directives. I doubt they will since warranties and service by qualified technician texts are likely applicable.

My point in including this is to give you a potential framework of what might cause sensor errors and to help you better understand what they may tell you and how it relates to your situation.

They say in the attached PDF that RPS State Error relates directly to the sensor . I don't know if they have a separate Thermal Error Code, but it should not present as an RPS error if it were that*

Your symptom at first logically presents as if a heat build up might have some relevancy, but not in the traditional sense of an actual Thermal Error.

I say that as it could be as simple as a pin in a wire connector that is not fully locked in a connector and as the wires in the cable bundle heat up during use, they expand and pull a pin apart just enough to throw the RPS error.

While you are waiting on Shopsmith I would visually inspect the connectors of all the wires you had to connect to install everything (including how you have them routed to make sure they aren't in a bind or pinched and shorting out) If you think about how a pinched wire under an aluminum heat-sink that expands when heated, you can envision a thermally induced temporary shorting of wires...

Visually verify all the wires and connectors are fully seated in their connector sockets, especially those to the RPS sensor. If an individual wire appears loose, you might be able to gently push it in until it locks. Again, pure speculation.

See what you think of the Teknatool Frequently Asked Questions I attached, but again do not follow the second one without Shopsmiths direct instruction or you could void your warranty.

Everett Again, speculation on all of this.