Shopsmith Forums

As most of you know the price of things at shopsmith is going up as of Monday (Aug 15) but we get to take advantage of a 5% discount before that happens.

Since I have a belt sander I got back in the mid 1970's that I want to disassemble and clean up this winter I figures maybe I'd replace the rubber sleeve on the bottom roller, it is OEM. I know at one time I had looked at it and found you could buy just that part, don't recall the price.

Today when I looked that part (now called a Drive Sleebe) is N/A and the only way it appears to be order-able is my getting the Belt Sander Driver Drum Assembly (incl 57-62) at $107.01.

OK I can understand the idea of having to stock parts and reducing inventory and farming out sub-assemblies and the like. But for some company to think this is going to make me happy they have another think coming. Brand loyalty only goes so far and they are right on their limit for me.

I got my son a used shopsmith a short while ago and it was missing a few parts one of which is the carriage pinion lock, it is also N/A. Ebay order went in for that today...... OK this is a bit different, they don't make these anymore and so I guess like all the other manufactures when those old parts are gone they are gone. Just doesn't make me feel good about the whole thing.

One thing I've like to brag about is how you can get parts for your old machines, well I guess I can drop that off my list of why to buy a shopsmith, it just isn't true anymore and is getting worse with time.

I guess if they want to be just like those other companies with limited support of older items then they can expect me to start shopping those other companies because the premium price of the shopsmith products is likely not worth it any more for me.

Just questioning the direction of the company at this point.

BTW I did place an order and did buy the whole $107.01 part where I could I'm sure of just cleaned mine up and put a new sleeve on it and used it for another bunch of years. At least this way it will be less work doing the rebuild.

So using my 5% discount I purchased $260.85 (after discount) worth of parts and put another order in to ebay for $100.51 worth of shopsmith part. I have been trying to be loyal to shopsmith and do most of my shopping here but well that is changing too. Ebay first then if I can't find it I'll look here but it could be they will not have it either...... or want me to buy an assembly of parts I don't need which I don't see me doing much of anymore..........

So did you get your order in before the price increase and did you save the 5%?

Ed

NOPE. I have a want list that totals about $400.00 but had to pass this opportunity up. Due to fraud activities on my accounts, I have all my accounts on a freeze.

reible wrote:As most of you know the price of things at shopsmith is going up as of Monday (Aug 15) but we get to take advantage of a 5% discount before that happens.

Since I have a belt sander I got back in the mid 1970's that I want to disassemble and clean up this winter I figures maybe I'd replace the rubber sleeve on the bottom roller, it is OEM. I know at one time I had looked at it and found you could buy just that part, don't recall the price.

Today when I looked that part (now called a Drive Sleebe) is N/A and the only way it appears to be order-able is my getting the Belt Sander Driver Drum Assembly (incl 57-62) at $107.01.

OK I can understand the idea of having to stock parts and reducing inventory and farming out sub-assemblies and the like. But for some company to think this is going to make me happy they have another think coming. Brand loyalty only goes so far and they are right on their limit for me.

I got my son a used shopsmith a short while ago and it was missing a few parts one of which is the carriage pinion lock, it is also N/A. Ebay order went in for that today...... OK this is a bit different, they don't make these anymore and so I guess like all the other manufactures when those old parts are gone they are gone. Just doesn't make me feel good about the whole thing.

One thing I've like to brag about is how you can get parts for your old machines, well I guess I can drop that off my list of why to buy a shopsmith, it just isn't true anymore and is getting worse with time.

I guess if they want to be just like those other companies with limited support of older items then they can expect me to start shopping those other companies because the premium price of the shopsmith products is likely not worth it any more for me.

Just questioning the direction of the company at this point.

BTW I did place an order and did buy the whole $107.01 part where I could I'm sure of just cleaned mine up and put a new sleeve on it and used it for another bunch of years. At least this way it will be less work doing the rebuild.

So using my 5% discount I purchased $260.85 (after discount) worth of parts and put another order in to ebay for $100.51 worth of shopsmith part. I have been trying to be loyal to shopsmith and do most of my shopping here but well that is changing too. Ebay first then if I can't find it I'll look here but it could be they will not have it either...... or want me to buy an assembly of parts I don't need which I don't see me doing much of anymore..........

So did you get your order in before the price increase and did you save the 5%?

Ed

I share your concern. If it is not 'current' production, it ain't available.

Gilmer belt is an exception.

I do not believe that Shopsmith will survive past the current Folkerth generation. The mean age of family control in the family's core company for a family run business is 60.2 years. More than 30% of all family-owned businesses survive into the second generation. Twelve percent will still be viable into the third generation, with 3% of all family businesses operating at the fourth-generation level and beyond. If it does last into the third generation I believe that support for the Mark V machines will go away after existing parts inventory is depleted.

stephen_a._draper wrote:I do not believe that Shopsmith will survive past the current Folkerth generation. The mean age of family control in the family's core company for a family run business is 60.2 years. More than 30% of all family-owned businesses survive into the second generation. Twelve percent will still be viable into the third generation, with 3% of all family businesses operating at the fourth-generation level and beyond. If it does last into the third generation I believe that support for the Mark V machines will go away after existing parts inventory is depleted.

I do not think there is any 'parts inventory' today.

Ed, I agree with you in concept. By sharing the technology with China who has no scruples for duplicating, cheapening and on and on, I fear that we will have another flood of inferior Shopsmith machines as well as inferior parts pouring in. If they only wear out faster, that would only be a strike in the pocket book. But, when it comes to user safety, that is a grave concern.

However, if the factories in China conform to the specs of the American quality of parts, that may be a different reason to reconsider. I, along with many others, fought in Viet Nam to stop Communism and I do not like catering to them even if it is my favorite machine in the world.

I also agree with JPG on the parts inventory. The concept of Just In Time (JIT) was popularized in the 1980's. Even government went that way and closed down many warehouses that support the military and the rest of government. So, a small operation such as Shopsmith has downsized and does not stock parts. On most all orders now, you get a warning that your parts may be made to order. And, that takes time for the manufacturer to set up, acquire raw materials, casting and machining and finishing for shipment.

This is concerning and we should all be watchful and inform these forums of our experiences with these out sourced to China products. Now, if they were produced in Europe, I would not blink an eye.

Maybe, the shipping to and from China is the reason for the price increase?

Steve, the old swampgator

Ed, I here ya and feel your pane, we just have to suck it up, or Ebay, the MS will figure it out to stay viable I hope.

I guess I am seeing this through a different lens. Loyalty
However in this case it seems like it is fast becoming a one way street. Shopsmith owners show great loyalty, but it appears that their loyalty is not being returned (though my perception is / has become tainted).
Mine is a petty gripe but I feel slighted by Shopsmith.
A few of you may remember a while back when I wrote to the magazine 'Woodworkers's Journal' when they had said that the "new" DVR technology was going to be coming. I pointed out that Shopsmith as already using it. Their rely was a quarter page in their magazine showing the Mark 7. Though I was not looking for anything from Shopsmith for providing them publicity I think it would have been at least decent for someone in management to send me an email thanking me for my loyalty. When Mike game through for a demo I gave him copies of the magazine page for his own use. He mentioned that Shopsmith should at least give me a gift certificate. I would have been excited if they sent me one of their $10 shipping discounts. . But nada zippo zero. I'm certain there are others who have done significantly more to promote the Shopsmith name and brand. I'm guessing that they got a big nothing, too. Seems to me that that shows a severe lack of loyalty by Shopsmith.
So.... That lack of loyalty by Shopsmith cost them my loyalty. I did buy my final order from them through Doug Reid (to get the 15%). I bought the quick index quill kit, the CMT (aka Shopsmith branded) rip blade and the front and rear rails so I can modify my butchered router table to something more conventional. But it was my final order. Am I being petty? Probably. But as I look back at the situation, my feelings were hurt. I went to bat for them and I didn't even get a simple thank you.
Before anyone says "well what if Shopsmith didn't know?" There were numerous relies to my post in Community and we know that Admin checks that regularly. Mike Young knew and a presume that someone somewhere pointed out to someone at Shopsmith that their latest and greatest was getting free publicity in a major publication (and if NO ONE there did know, who's watching the place?! It was FREE frickin advertising!)
The lack of spare parts, even its just one of each thing on a shelf in a back room, shows (in my opinion) a contempt for previous owners. If Shopsmith truly does offer a Lifetime of support, just how will they accomplish that?
Anyway, enough of my bellyaching.

Be well,
Ben

I am not yet at the point of "selling out" but I must admit that some of what I hear concerns me.

Ceasing production on different items (without explanation of when production might resume) also scares me.

It might be time for a thorough once over checkup.

Guys, regarding the amount of inventory that a company carries, there's another factor at work, and it trumps "manufacturing trends", "customer loyalty", and "lifetime support" desires/commitments.

Carrying a large parts inventory requires a commensurately large amount of working capital. You have to pay your vendors for all that inventory that's sitting on your shelves. Given the sheer number of different components Shopsmith maintains, I'd estimate that Shopsmith has several million dollars worth of inventory on hand at any given time.

Now in the old days, this was not a big deal. Your friendly bank would typically loan you 80% of the replacement cost of your inventory, and charge you a very reasonable interest rate for the inventory financing. So if you wanted to increase inventory, you only had to come up with 20% of the cost in cash.

That started changing about 15 years ago. Then after the great recession, it became almost impossible for a small company to get inventory financing from a bank. And even if you could, it was only for inventory that turns rapidly. I doubt there is still a bank out there that will still finance slow-moving service inventory. It simply has no collateral value in the event that they have to call the loan and liquidate the assets.

I was running a small manufacturing company at the time, and our inventory financing dried up during that period. Not only could we no longer carry sufficient spare-parts inventory to maintain our desired/traditional level of customer service, we couldn't even order components for new production in economic batch sizes. So you wind up ordering in small batches, and then the setup charges become a large percentage of the unit cost, which drives up your cost of goods. I had some success at replacing bank financing with equity financing, but that was hugely expensive. Cash flow and inventory flow soon declined in a vicious circle, and we were forced to discontinue production of the product line.

I have no doubt that Shopsmith has to deal with similar issues. No matter how much they may want to continue providing parts for 50-year old machines, ultimately they will only be able to do so if it is a profitable business for them. Otherwise, they are subsidizing an unprofitable niche with their profitable products. This not only makes the profitable products less competitive, it also hurts their profit margins, which in turn reduces their ability to obtain working capital. See, another vicious circle.

From what I have been able to observe, Shopsmith management is doing an admirable job of dealing with business realities.