Shopsmith Forums

The discussion on Bosch's new technology made me wonder what the actual market for serious home hobbies grade tablesaws was.
Someone mentioned at this time Bosch was not planning to produce a hybrid or cabinet style of the Reaxx technology.
I know most manufactures have produced new contractor/construction saws but I see little or no action on saws often found in serious woodworkers shops.

Anyone have any idea what the market is for say hybrids or cabinet saws?

While I'm asking I wonder how the Shopsmith sales are.

I read the topic you are refering to and I have a few observations. Personally, I have no desire for the Bosch system or the SawStop for many reasons. Mainly I already have 5 table saws (in the form of Shopsmith(s) ) so I don't need another TS, and secondly and probably most importantly, I just don't see the need. Practice safe operations and you don't get hurt. I have operated equipment since I was 8 years old and learned to plow with a "spin the flywheel" start John Deere B. I have been a heavy equipment operator from backhoes, trackhoes, scrapers, blades, and over the road trucking (owned my own trucking company). Close calls, sure. If you get out of bed, you are eventually going to have close calls. I don't like the approach the Sawstop took (as has been pointed out) and would dampen my enthusiasm anyway. Bosch is a good idea (actually better in some ways IMHO), but I just don't see the need.

As far as Shopsmith, according to some sources, some inside SS and other not, RLF Shop is doing better today than probably at anytime before .... mainly because of the PowerPro and Mark 7.

I think the "hobby" is pretty sound. I may be fooling myself, but that is the way I see it.

When I started this thread my intention was to discuss the market for tablesaws most often seen in serious home hobbyist shops, hybrids, cabinet saw,new Shopsmith's, the more upscale saws.

I don't know but from my very limited observation it seems like the market is down. I see new stuff coming out
For construction trades but nothing among the larger saws.

What are your thoughts or observations.

Well, the short answer is everything is down. There hardly is any middle class anymore and many retirees are taking part time work just to meet property tax and food obligations. So many if not most industries are down.

Now, with that said, I was told by Jim McCann, which I believed, Shopsmith is soaring. The PowerPro and Mark 7 has created a business model that hasn't been seen since some of the heydays of Shopsmith. They are also very cognizant of operating costs and the trap of hiring too many people (which are exponentially more expensive per head now) and too much inventory (I disagree with the later, but that is just me).

So bottom line, the economy is weak, with limited spendable cash (regardless of what is being said), hobbies (even part time ww business) is going to be down in numbers but SS still seems to be doing well.

JMHO

I have not done research on this but talking to 2 different owners of 2 different WoodCraft franchises, Milw and Appleton, and the manager at the Rockler in Milw.
They have seen an increase in the Millennium agers buying.

I forgot to mention, they are buying top end stuff, and if a TS they are looking/buying Saw Stop technology, maybe to show there buddies on weekend dinner party nights.
As far as Saw Stop technology in wood working shops, I think the insurance companies and OSHA, has a big push on that.

ERLover wrote:I have not done research on this but talking to 2 different owners of 2 different WoodCraft franchises, Milw and Appleton, and the manager at the Rockler in Milw.
They have seen an increase in the Millennium agers buying.

Hope you are right! Seems like a lot of mergers taking place, that usually doesn't happen when business is good.

Ed in Tampa wrote:

ERLover wrote:I have not done research on this but talking to 2 different owners of 2 different WoodCraft franchises, Milw and Appleton, and the manager at the Rockler in Milw.
They have seen an increase in the Millennium agers buying.

Hope you are right! Seems like a lot of mergers taking place, that usually doesn't happen when business is good.

But can happen when future business looks promising(to at least one of the 'mergerees').

Ed in Tampa wrote:

ERLover wrote:I have not done research on this but talking to 2 different owners of 2 different WoodCraft franchises, Milw and Appleton, and the manager at the Rockler in Milw.
They have seen an increase in the Millennium agers buying.

Hope you are right! Seems like a lot of mergers taking place, that usually doesn't happen when business is good.

Who is merging??? Or a good time to sell off/merge and get premium $. When business is bad you are a the mercy of the buyer if you want to sell.

I have a number points to address so will try to make this as coherent as I can
First, I believe many woodworkers who become more engrossed with creation, go through cycles of more difficult projects.
Second, personal choices of what can and or should be spent often dictate where a woodworker enters the field.
Third, personal choice often determines our threshold of convenience and attitude versus willingness to make due or buy new.
Lastly, I think each person's criteria of acceptable change, changes. Many variables and factors contribute, however few of us stay constant nor consistent especially "hobbyists".
With that said
I've found that for me, larger more stable surfaces and great motor size are more important than the time and effort it takes to configure my M7 even though it is quite adaptable
For most of my future projects, the M7 IS configurable but the versatility and ease to make depth of cut changes to large pieces is beginning to far outweigh the time and effort the M7 requires. I "can" set up a large stable cutting surface, but I minor but significant change means changing the entire surface, nut just raising or lowering a blade or dado.
Am I willing to sacrifice shop space for a dedicated cabinet saw? Probably. Could I make do with a job site saw? Only if I made a larger table for it to set within. Do I think I would be more comfortable with the newer safety technology? Absolutely!
So,I am one of those in the market for literally larger everything.
I didn't go to the international wood products show in Atlanta this year, but will be headed to Las Vegas next July (already have my pass) . I think the answer to Ed's question will be more readily gauged there.
Personally I think fewer are willing to pull the trigger on SawStop and Reaxx because of the "twice the cost" differential. I believe the clubs and organizations which share equipment will be willing to share the cost. The disparity in members levels of caution and ability seems to be evident in stories heard. You may not be able to cure stupid, but safety can help mitigate the results.
Previously I think Dick asked if there is a better way to cut wood... more safely, probably. As to a different way?
Is there and will there be better ways to cut wood? Some years back, no one would have dreamed of cutting thick sheets of steel with water... . Lasers are getting more sophisticated. Maybe CNC machines will replace saws and routers even at a hobbyist level.
So to finally address Ed's question a bit more directly, personally, no, I don't think the market for hybrid nor cabinet saws is growing nor will it. Wood magazine had a decent multi issue series about taking an empty garage and turning it into a decent hobbyists lair. My thought is that middle level equipment will be the norm and even those who would like it to the next level will make do with what they have.
Just my rambling- long winded as it may be.
Be well,
Ben