The Union Syndrome

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:05 pm

In several posts in several threads on this forum, I, and others, have spoken out about some union policies. I am not anti-union, I just think that some of the policies that unions insist on are hurting our country. They hurt the citizens, union and non-union alike. Ford Motor Company feels the same way. I have mentioned that some of these union policies have forced manufacturing out of our great country and into China. Well, this ain't China, but this link shows a perfect example.

BTW, the "movie" narrator mentions some of these bad union policies.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

jbillups · Post by **jbillups** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:58 am

The Union's fighting for fair working conditions a decent wage is not what has chased manufacturing out of the United States. Don't you think maybe all those trips to WalMart may have something to do with it. As long as people contiune to buy cheap crap made in china, Americans will suffer by losing thier jobs. People complain about quailty... well you get what you paid for. This is the reason my shop is all vintage american iron. I will always pay more and buy American. So if my or any other Union is hurting people who buy non-american, yet claim to be patriotic, then so be it. Because this is American.

as for Ford... best of luck with your cheap labor... one more manufacture to cross off my list.

Don't forgot about Union Apprenticeship programs that are state certified and provide the best training possible.

Proud to be Union!
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Local 3 - Northern California

jbillups · Post by **jbillups** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:59 am

The Union's fighting for fair working conditions a decent wage is not what has chased manufacturing out of the United States. Don't you think maybe all those trips to WalMart may have something to do with it. As long as people contiune to buy cheap crap made in china, Americans will suffer by losing thier jobs. People complain about quailty... well you get what you paid for. This is the reason my shop is all vintage american iron. I will always pay more and buy American. So if my or any other Union is hurting people who buy non-american, yet claim to be patriotic, then so be it. Because this is American.

as for Ford... best of luck with your cheap labor... one more manufacture to cross off my list.

Don't forgot about Union Apprenticeship programs that are state certified and provide the best training possible.

Proud to be Union!
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Local 3 - Northern California

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:18 am

Best to avoid this subject! Enough said!

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:01 am

jbillups wrote:The Union's fighting for fair working conditions a decent wage is not what has chased manufacturing out of the United States. Don't you think maybe all those trips to WalMart may have something to do with it. As long as people contiune to buy cheap crap made in china, Americans will suffer by losing thier jobs. People complain about quailty... well you get what you paid for. This is the reason my shop is all vintage american iron. I will always pay more and buy American. So if my or any other Union is hurting people who buy non-american, yet claim to be patriotic, then so be it. Because this is American.

as for Ford... best of luck with your cheap labor... one more manufacture to cross off my list.

Don't forgot about Union Apprenticeship programs that are state certified and provide the best training possible.

Proud to be Union!
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Local 3 - Northern California

Hi Joshua,
Hey, I am right there with you: I buy American made every time that I can. I have NEVER owned a foreign made car. My current 2007 Impala, according to General Motors, is 100% made in the USA with 95% made in the USA parts! I avoid buying any foreign items as much as possible, regardless of the price, and especially avoid that product made in China. When given a choice, if I can get it made in America, I always choose the American made product. Check my posts throughout this forum and you will see me on the Made-In-America bandwagon constantly and to the irritation of some of the other members.

That being said, I maintain that unions, like any other group or individual, are not perfect. Unions make mistakes. I am not a fan of the Ford Motor Company, but, in case you did not know this, Henry Ford was the first automobile magnate to allow unions into his shop. After some initial resistance, he accepted their demands and helped force the other auto manufacturers to do so also. Thus began the union movement.

Now, here is my and many like minded Americans' problem: We can knot find an increasing amount of products that are not made anywhere, anymore, except in China. We are being forced to buy Chinese product, and in the case of light bulbs, we are even LEGALLY obligated, thanks to the USA congress, to purchase Chinese made light bulbs, as they are not being made anywhere else in the world. See this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg

I am not attacking unions. Many of their practices are beneficial, but I am pointing out that some of their practices, IMHO, are archiac. They could choose to do more to help our country.

alancooke · Post by **alancooke** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:47 pm

jbillups wrote:The Union's fighting for fair working conditions a decent wage is not what has chased manufacturing out of the United States.

That may depend upon your definition of 'fair' and 'decent'.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:37 pm

Is this forum the best place to argument and debate this subject. What happened to discussing good ol' woodworking?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:45 pm

I'm sorry woodburner, but I think the web page reads like this:

COMMUNITY
This is a forum for general discussion not related to woodworking.

I don't know where it would be more appropriate (on this forum) to discuss unions or any other none woodworking subject than right here.

Now, maybe it is futile to debate the pros and cons of unions on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) since most of us are not in a position to doing anything about it.

Furthermore, if you take a real close look at a very large number of posts on this forum of late - woodworking isn't really the primary topic.

We have been waiting to see a new list of forum topics (a restructuring if you will). Maybe if that actually happened it would be more clear what should be discussed here on the forum and in what forum areas those discussions should take place.

I used to concern myself about "staying on topic" but I gave that up on that quite awhile ago. Relax, man. Just let it happen how ever it'll happen. The information that is available here is still very valuable and the converstaions (debates) are usually very interesting.