I'm writing on the behalf of my father-in-law who's recently retired and the proud new owner of a brand-new-out-out-of-the-box Mark V 520. I stopped by his place to see how he was doing on his first project and he had a question that I could not answer, so I'm asking for advice from the forum.
Before he starts a cut he clamps the piece of wood clamped in the miter clamp and holds the miter clamp with his left hand while he reaches under the table with his right hand to turn on the saw, then grabs the pin on the speed adjustment wheel to crank up the speed. He says that this is very awkward (and I can see that it is) because his right hand has to travel farther to the left than his left hand, and the speed adjustment wheel has a peg on it, but no knob that would allow quick speed adjustment. He has to grasp the rim of the wheel, but there is a lever in the way, just where he would want to have his hand. It takes him 15 seconds to start the saw and 15 seconds to slow the saw down and stop it.
Are we doing this correctly? Did we miss something? Shouldn't there at least be a knob on the wheel peg? Is there supposed to be a lever conflictig with the use of the speed adjustment wheel? Most table saws that I've used are started/stopped by a flip of a switch located close to the table top.
My father-in-law works alone and I want him to be safe. (yes, I know there are inherent dangers in all power equipment, but I want to be sure that he is operating it the same way as the rest of the SS users.)
Thanks,
DBH12
Need advice on dangerous cross-handed operation
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Hi,
First the lever you speak of is most likely the quill feed arm, it can be mounted on the other side of the machine which gets it out of the way. If you notice it is threaded and by turning it in the correct direction to loosen it you can position it in any of four locations on the shaft or by going a little farther it comes off and moves to the other side of the machine where again it mounts in any of four positions on that sides shaft. So step one is done.
Now I know it is shopsmith policy/directions to turn the machine to low speed then turn it back up but when you are doing an operation I leave it set at the necessary speed and turn it on and off...... 30 years of doing that and I have not noticed any issues. You do want to remember to turn it back to slow when you have finish an operation and want to change to another one of the modes... like changing to the 12" sanding disk as that requires running at a lower speed. Also at the end of the day it is a good idea to take it back to the low speed and leave it that way until you use it again.
Since I am right handed I like to grip the safety grip with my right hand and this lets your left hand operate the switch. I also like to use the miter slot to the left of the blade for a lot of operations, keeping my right hand on the grip and my left hand to my left keeps my hands well away from the blade. No hard and fast rules here and I do use the right slot for things but again I feel best using my right hand for the gripping.
So that is my take on this post but others may feel differently....
Ed
First the lever you speak of is most likely the quill feed arm, it can be mounted on the other side of the machine which gets it out of the way. If you notice it is threaded and by turning it in the correct direction to loosen it you can position it in any of four locations on the shaft or by going a little farther it comes off and moves to the other side of the machine where again it mounts in any of four positions on that sides shaft. So step one is done.
Now I know it is shopsmith policy/directions to turn the machine to low speed then turn it back up but when you are doing an operation I leave it set at the necessary speed and turn it on and off...... 30 years of doing that and I have not noticed any issues. You do want to remember to turn it back to slow when you have finish an operation and want to change to another one of the modes... like changing to the 12" sanding disk as that requires running at a lower speed. Also at the end of the day it is a good idea to take it back to the low speed and leave it that way until you use it again.
Since I am right handed I like to grip the safety grip with my right hand and this lets your left hand operate the switch. I also like to use the miter slot to the left of the blade for a lot of operations, keeping my right hand on the grip and my left hand to my left keeps my hands well away from the blade. No hard and fast rules here and I do use the right slot for things but again I feel best using my right hand for the gripping.
So that is my take on this post but others may feel differently....
Ed
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dusty
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 21371
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
Need Advice on Dangerous Cross-Handed Operation
I expect to get pummelled for my words on this subject but life is full of choices so here I go.
To reiterate Ed and batg4, I have relocated the quill feed arm because of its interference with day-to-day operations. This is strictly a matter of convenience and will not get anyone at SS excited.
Why must you turn the SS to low speed before you turn it off; 1) so that you do not turn it on set at a high speed (the motor draws more current at high speed and when starting up [getting the mass into motion]) and 2) to prevent turning it on at high speed after changing to a mode that MUST BE DONE AT LOW SPEED. I have used my current SS since the early 80's and I have no problems; I turn it on/off while set at saw speeds all of the time. I am very careful though not to change modes without having run the speed down before the change. If something goes wrong with a setup, I want to discover that while at a lower speed.
I routinely mount stock with the motor (saw) running; just be very careful that wood is not fed into the blade prematurely. I use a sliding cutoff table even when the table is not really needed; it sort of keeps the project away from the blade by creating more table top. The miter clamp is absolutely necessary for smaller stock. Keep your self away from that blade; do not reach over; stay out of the red zone.
What you are doing now is the RIGHT THING TO DO. Be cautious. Get to know the limits and hazards of your machine and of yourself. Get comfortable with the machine (and yourself) in all of its configurations. Most all accidents are due to actions of the operator and NOT the machine.
Read and follow your manual again and again. Welcome to the shop and to the forum. Remember, we are always here.
__________________
Make Sawdust Safely
To reiterate Ed and batg4, I have relocated the quill feed arm because of its interference with day-to-day operations. This is strictly a matter of convenience and will not get anyone at SS excited.
Why must you turn the SS to low speed before you turn it off; 1) so that you do not turn it on set at a high speed (the motor draws more current at high speed and when starting up [getting the mass into motion]) and 2) to prevent turning it on at high speed after changing to a mode that MUST BE DONE AT LOW SPEED. I have used my current SS since the early 80's and I have no problems; I turn it on/off while set at saw speeds all of the time. I am very careful though not to change modes without having run the speed down before the change. If something goes wrong with a setup, I want to discover that while at a lower speed.
I routinely mount stock with the motor (saw) running; just be very careful that wood is not fed into the blade prematurely. I use a sliding cutoff table even when the table is not really needed; it sort of keeps the project away from the blade by creating more table top. The miter clamp is absolutely necessary for smaller stock. Keep your self away from that blade; do not reach over; stay out of the red zone.
What you are doing now is the RIGHT THING TO DO. Be cautious. Get to know the limits and hazards of your machine and of yourself. Get comfortable with the machine (and yourself) in all of its configurations. Most all accidents are due to actions of the operator and NOT the machine.
Read and follow your manual again and again. Welcome to the shop and to the forum. Remember, we are always here.
__________________
Make Sawdust Safely
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chiroindixon
- Gold Member
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:42 pm
- Location: QCA Iowa
Ditto....
I'll echo the above comments and add a tip from a Travelling Academy guy. For those that turn the speed changer with the right hand and find it awkward, get into the habit of using the left. Works much better.....try it. I was amazed.
I do the same as the others and leave the speed set for whatever I'm doing and only bring back to "Slow" when at the end of the day, or for changing setups.
Reaching under the saw table with full extensions, floaters, infeed/outfeed is slow, awkward, and a bit scary. See the photos I posted on the "SawStop System" thread (general woodworking). This setup lets me leave my big table set up, and it's an easy and safe reach to turn saw (motor) back on. Shuts down with a slight lean forward and tap with shin.
I tend to use the right miter slot. Most of the SS sleds, etc. favor this and it's now my habit. My add on switch keeps this old soldier from "crossing the line of fire".
Doc
I do the same as the others and leave the speed set for whatever I'm doing and only bring back to "Slow" when at the end of the day, or for changing setups.
Reaching under the saw table with full extensions, floaters, infeed/outfeed is slow, awkward, and a bit scary. See the photos I posted on the "SawStop System" thread (general woodworking). This setup lets me leave my big table set up, and it's an easy and safe reach to turn saw (motor) back on. Shuts down with a slight lean forward and tap with shin.
I tend to use the right miter slot. Most of the SS sleds, etc. favor this and it's now my habit. My add on switch keeps this old soldier from "crossing the line of fire".
Doc
More on cross handed operation
Here is a solution to DBH 512's knuckle busting problem that has not been mentioned earlier. The placement of both the quill lock handle and the head stock handle can be in a position to clip a knuckle while changing speeds. This problem is easily cured by backing off the handles a quarter turn. It's my personal problem that causes me to over-tighten these handles. They don't have to be screwed down real tight in order to accomplish their hold on their assigned function. Once I learned this - adjusting speed got a lot easier.
I particularly like ED'S reply to this problem - and also Doc's. For years I always, you could even say religiously turned the speed back to slow after each and every operation. Before replacing both the shaft and the sleeve and key (idler shaft assembly). I inspected the worn out disassembled unit and found the sleeve (brass) had worn and the shaft was also suspect. The key itself had become worn to the extent that it rocked in the groove. I have given two causes to this problem. 1) My failure to follow a disiplined lubrication and 2) My over zelous winding of the speed control. Now I have adopted regular lube times and also have adopted leave the speed set until before you need to change it. These new practices have continued for the past several years and the head is still humming like new.
Here's my solution to lubing. I write the last lube date on a piece of masking tape and place it just above the warning lable on the headstock. Since I use the SS every day, if a month passes without lubing and waxing - I stop and do the maintenance.
Hope this helps.
Charlese
I particularly like ED'S reply to this problem - and also Doc's. For years I always, you could even say religiously turned the speed back to slow after each and every operation. Before replacing both the shaft and the sleeve and key (idler shaft assembly). I inspected the worn out disassembled unit and found the sleeve (brass) had worn and the shaft was also suspect. The key itself had become worn to the extent that it rocked in the groove. I have given two causes to this problem. 1) My failure to follow a disiplined lubrication and 2) My over zelous winding of the speed control. Now I have adopted regular lube times and also have adopted leave the speed set until before you need to change it. These new practices have continued for the past several years and the head is still humming like new.
Here's my solution to lubing. I write the last lube date on a piece of masking tape and place it just above the warning lable on the headstock. Since I use the SS every day, if a month passes without lubing and waxing - I stop and do the maintenance.
Hope this helps.
Charlese
There's no sense in my rehashing the excellent advice already posted on this thread, but I would like to add three brief points and clarify another.
1. While this thread has focused on where to put your hands when turning the Shopsmith on and off, little has been said about where to put your body. No matter what hand you use for which part of the sawing operation, you should never stand in line with the saw blade, always position yourself to one side or the other. I view the area between the miter slots as No Man's Land and try to position myself on the outboard side of whatever slot is closest.
2. Oftentimes -- especially when crosscutting -- the miter gauge is not the best tool for guiding the wood. When crosscutting long boards, it's not even an adequate tool. Give some heed to what Dusty said about using a sliding table. It's the better (and often safer) choice. If you don't want to buy one, I show how to make one in our Jigs & Fixtures class.
3. If a procedure feels awkward, it's dangerous for you to proceed. Change the position of your hands, shift your body, grab a push stick, change from miter gauge to sliding table, build a robot, hire someone with expendible fingers, do SOMETHING to make the procedure feel natural and safe before doing it. In order to be in control, you must first feel in control.
4. Turning the motor down to "Slow" before turning off the machine is only a safety issue if you intend to change modes before you turn it on again. Your first step in changing over from one operation to another on the Shopsmith should always be to check that the speed is set as low as possible. Not only does this prevent you from overspeeding a cutting tool; it minimizes the damage to the machine (and possibly yourself) if you have forgotten to tighten an allen screw or have misaligned a cutter.
For those of you who have older machines with 3/4 HP motors, this procedure helps extend the life of the motor. At 3/4 HP, the Shopsmith is slightly underpowered and it has to work hard to get the drive train up to speed from a standing start. If you start on "Slow," the motor has its best possible mechanical advantage, does less work, and lives to a ripe old age.
For those of you with 1-1/8 HP under the hood of your Shopsmith, check the wiring in your shop before you decide whether or not to turn the motor to "Slow" between each cut. The motor pulls more electrical current when under load, and pushing the drive shaft, idler shaft, belt, pulleys, arbor, and blade up to speed can be a big load. It gets bigger when the machine is set to a high speed at startup. If you are plugged into a 20-amp circuit (as recommended), your breaker and wiring can probably handle the extra amperage the motor has to draw at a high-speed startup. If you are making do with a 15-amp circuit, or you have other electrical devices plugged into the same circuit as your Shopsmith, turn the speed down before shutting off. It only takes a few seconds and it's always less trouble than a trip to the fuse box (which, in my shop, is usually located behind a stack of plywood).
With all good wishes,
1. While this thread has focused on where to put your hands when turning the Shopsmith on and off, little has been said about where to put your body. No matter what hand you use for which part of the sawing operation, you should never stand in line with the saw blade, always position yourself to one side or the other. I view the area between the miter slots as No Man's Land and try to position myself on the outboard side of whatever slot is closest.
2. Oftentimes -- especially when crosscutting -- the miter gauge is not the best tool for guiding the wood. When crosscutting long boards, it's not even an adequate tool. Give some heed to what Dusty said about using a sliding table. It's the better (and often safer) choice. If you don't want to buy one, I show how to make one in our Jigs & Fixtures class.
3. If a procedure feels awkward, it's dangerous for you to proceed. Change the position of your hands, shift your body, grab a push stick, change from miter gauge to sliding table, build a robot, hire someone with expendible fingers, do SOMETHING to make the procedure feel natural and safe before doing it. In order to be in control, you must first feel in control.
4. Turning the motor down to "Slow" before turning off the machine is only a safety issue if you intend to change modes before you turn it on again. Your first step in changing over from one operation to another on the Shopsmith should always be to check that the speed is set as low as possible. Not only does this prevent you from overspeeding a cutting tool; it minimizes the damage to the machine (and possibly yourself) if you have forgotten to tighten an allen screw or have misaligned a cutter.
For those of you who have older machines with 3/4 HP motors, this procedure helps extend the life of the motor. At 3/4 HP, the Shopsmith is slightly underpowered and it has to work hard to get the drive train up to speed from a standing start. If you start on "Slow," the motor has its best possible mechanical advantage, does less work, and lives to a ripe old age.
For those of you with 1-1/8 HP under the hood of your Shopsmith, check the wiring in your shop before you decide whether or not to turn the motor to "Slow" between each cut. The motor pulls more electrical current when under load, and pushing the drive shaft, idler shaft, belt, pulleys, arbor, and blade up to speed can be a big load. It gets bigger when the machine is set to a high speed at startup. If you are plugged into a 20-amp circuit (as recommended), your breaker and wiring can probably handle the extra amperage the motor has to draw at a high-speed startup. If you are making do with a 15-amp circuit, or you have other electrical devices plugged into the same circuit as your Shopsmith, turn the speed down before shutting off. It only takes a few seconds and it's always less trouble than a trip to the fuse box (which, in my shop, is usually located behind a stack of plywood).
With all good wishes,
Nick Engler
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
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Greenvilleguy
- Gold Member
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: Greenville, SC
I can only amplify what has already been said. I don't change speeds except when I'm changing operations like converting from sawing to drill press, sanding, lathe, etc. Then I run the motor and change the speed to slow before doing the changeover. When the changeover is complete and I've checked to make sure everything is locked down, the last step is to turn on the motor and run the speed control to the proper speed.
I have a 1954 SS that my Dad or I have used since 1957. That's almost 50 years! I still have the original 3/4 horse motor and original speed control changer.
Nick's comment about laboring is right on. When I'm set up to both saw and joint, which is probably my most common setup; the motor does labor on start up, but it doesn't seem to have hurt it much.
I'm luckly enough to also have a radial arm saw. I feel more comfortable cross cutting on the radial arm saw (or trim pieces on my miter saw) and ripping on the SS so when I can, that's what I do.
Nick, thanks for your reminder to not stand inline with the blade. I know better, but need to be reminded every so often.
I have a 1954 SS that my Dad or I have used since 1957. That's almost 50 years! I still have the original 3/4 horse motor and original speed control changer.
Nick's comment about laboring is right on. When I'm set up to both saw and joint, which is probably my most common setup; the motor does labor on start up, but it doesn't seem to have hurt it much.
I'm luckly enough to also have a radial arm saw. I feel more comfortable cross cutting on the radial arm saw (or trim pieces on my miter saw) and ripping on the SS so when I can, that's what I do.
Nick, thanks for your reminder to not stand inline with the blade. I know better, but need to be reminded every so often.
speed control
After ruining three bandsaw blades from turning the motor on at high speed I now return it to slow every night. Chare it up to a bad memory and being new to the SS.
Paul
Paul