MFT table purchase or custom MFT build???

[RFGuy]

So, how well does the Festool MFT table function for the hobby woodworker (not a contractor)? Previous homeowner left me their old kitchen cabinets in my shop from their remodel. I already use them for storage in my shop and the the crude tops serve as my existing workbench. I intend to add a new MFT style top to these existing cabinets, similar to what others have shown on the forum for their own custom MFT style work surface. Since these are kitchen cabinets, the new top could be up to 30" deep possibly, but my plan was to design for a hinged leaf (extension wing) that would hang on the back side of the cabinet. Idea would be that when I need a larger work surface, I move the truck out of the garage and raise this extension wing giving me a large MFT style work surface to work from.

I know everything in Festool is a system, but I am just curious how useful anyone finds the MFT tables from Festool (versus building custom ones). I know there is the optional miter square that attaches to the tracks and the ability to clamp from the edges. Basically my question is what will I be giving up by going with a custom MFT work surface instead of purchasing one from Festool? Also, how well does the Festool miter assembly work with the tracks?

Going with the custom MFT table, I would plan on going with any suitable Woodpeckers or similar guides to assist the Festool tracks for alignment. Maybe not as clean as using Festool's MFT table, but hopefully a good tradeoff given my attempt to make the best use of my unique shop situation. Also, as an fyi, I already have the Woodpeckers hole boring jig. I don't know how accurate the hole-to-hole alignment will be from this. Perhaps the Shaper Origin technique posted recently is a better option. Either this or a flat bed CNC may be preferred, but I wanted to give this jig a shot. Sorry for all the Festool noob questions, but would appreciate any feedback on this.

[reible]

I'm not sure if there is a question here?

I have not tried the woodpecker template but in general they make good stuff so I would expect it to work well. Initial placement will need to be accurate or the lines might tend to not be square with the top but you could also trim the top after to get it nice and square to the holes.

The other issue might be hole size. As I understand it you use a guide bushing to make the holes so you will have little opportunity to adjust the hole size as it will depend on the bit and associated parts. You might want to play with that on scrap to see what the fit is with the intended bit. Bits have a tendency to be slightly undersized which could mean having to shop for a good fit.

I use my centipede to cut down full sheets and it takes up little room. I also will process some smaller pieces that way using the rail and a right angle guide. Where the MFT comes in is when I want to do "cross cuts" and I can set up the system that way. I don't see a good way for a home made version to do that but then there are the Parf systems which should do just as well provided the top's holes are squared.

You are correct that you will be missing the side clamping areas, and to be honest I don't use them all that much so depending on how you work this might be an issue or not. You can make aprons that could support side clamping???

Anyway I've got to run but if you have other more specific questions let me know, other wise I might be back later to continue this train of thought.

Ed

[RFGuy]

I'm not sure if there is a question here?

Ed

Thanks Ed. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yeah, my main question is if I don't go with the Festool MFT, but build my own custom one, what will I miss out on? I know the Festool MFT is compact, light and easy to transport/store which is a plus, but not really needed in my case. I know it has side rails that enable clamping. I know the tracks can be attached to the side of the MFT with the miter gauge. Is there anything else that the Festool MFT does that I didn't list? I think going the custom MFT route is the best overall solution for my shop. Hoping I can use a combination of bench dogs and the alignment of the holes bored in the top to set square for track saw cuts in the future. If this doesn't work, then I will get some kind of square/miter attachment (e.g. Woodpeckers Adjustable Track Square, etc.) to attach to the tracks. Also, I already have the Festool router, so is there anything "special" that can be done with the Festool router on the Festool track that needs the Festool MFT to work versus a custom built MFT?

UPDATE: Re-reading your post from above and going back to this thread (https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/gene ... 2-s20.html), if I understand correctly you use your custom MFT tables a majority of the time. So, really the only thing I would be missing out on without a Festool MFT is the miter gauge capability which would be nice for cross cuts, but this could be replaced with the Woodpeckers Adjustable Track Square or a similar product. Is there any benefit to using the Festool MFT (versus a custom MFT) with the Festool router and track, i.e. any hidden features?

[sehast]

When I built my MFT I did a similar exercise and could find no function that could not be duplicated, at least that I cared about. Getting the holes drilled precisely is probably the biggest challenge. I used a Shaper Origin but there are several other ways to go including the one you are leaning towards. Here is one that uses a router and a common pegboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4HB4wo9LW8

There are even strategies that do not require precise holes. I am a big fan of the TSO line of MFT accessories. Every bit as good as Woodpecker including the prices.

https://tsoproducts.com/brands/TSO-Products.html

I have the GRS-16, GRS-16 PE guide rail squares and the TPG-50 parallel guide system. It was quite an investment but I am able to do all the functions I care about and not even touch a dog. I do have some dogs and really did get the holes precise but have not found a job where I absolutely need the holes other than for clamping. Maybe I will as time goes on. I have a Festool OF 1010 router and the rail guide along with the TSO stuff is all I use.
I am considering building an apron similar to one on the Stanton bench which will be much more versatile than the side rails on the Festool MFT. If you really want those rails you can buy them from Festool separately and add them to your bench.

[claimdude]

I built a custom MFT that is height adjustable and is 42" x 60" roughly. I found a CNC guy near buy who cut mine for me. You can do anything with a custom table that you can with the Festool MFT except carry it with you (in my case my bench is is on wheels and weighs probably 400+ lbs. Rock solid though with the wheels retracted. I used the JackBench Plans with some mods that the JackBench developer helped me with.Jack

[reible]

The track holds well with just the weight of things and the rubber grips for sawing but for routing you need to clamp things. This is where the MFT works well in that it has a fixed stop at the back and then the track lifts (hinges) to allow positioning/repositioning the work piece. Nice for sawing but really nice for routing. That is a clamping function without any other clamping needed.

The MFT also has a protractor head so you can either route or saw at angles, if you need that it is great, and pretty easy to setup and use. Not sure how you would set this up without that function but there is always drawing lines on the work piece then manual alignment.

The festool plan is often thought of as using their parallel guide extension system followed by the cross cutting done on the MFT. Now there are several other options. Several other manufactures are making parallel guides, these are not cheap and while some of us home users have invested in them they are pretty expensive. The woodpecker set I have with both inch and mm arms was over $500. It does allow rips to 52", well over the half way point of a sheet of plywood. The festool version doesn't allow as wide rips but is near $500 with the extensions that allow for shorter rips.

There are two basic ways besides the MFT to do cross cutting. The cheaper way is to use dogs and a track. You put dogs in to use as a back stop then dogs to create the 45/90 degree to use the track against. There are several companies making these systems but in general they are referred to the Parf system. I personally find this very useful but the MFT top needs to be accurate or at least the set of hole you use for this need to be accurate.

The second way is to attach an arm so to speak to the track that will set against the workpiece and like a square provide the 90 degree alignment you need to do the cuts. Several companies are now doing these too.

Now some companies are combining the two ideas into a solution. As you might expect these again are not cheap.

A MFT can be purchase as a plain unit for $605, with the added track and protractor etc they run $720 and you will need to add the leg braces for what ever they are going for now. So a do it yourself table is saving you a few dollars which you can then spend on the other toys you need.

Do keep the thickness down to the 3/4" range if you plan to use things like the clamps and the like. Thicker tables will not allow those clamps to be inserted.

You can also buy replacement MFT tops for in the area of $130 which is not bad since it is designed to flip over and give you two work services. I have only one cut in my top, where I forgot to change the saw setting when going to thinner material.... my bad. I use a waste board on top of the MFT top so the cutting happens to it rather then the MFT.

Ed

[RFGuy]

I really appreciate all of the great feedback. Claimdude has an excellent worktable and I like the idea of it being height adjustable, but any height mechanism won't fit inside the cabinet base that I am trying to re-purpose. Some day when I have a larger shop, I plan to build a big height adjustable work table. Also, I had already purchased the Woodpecker hole boring jig, so I want to try routing my own MFT top first. If I find that I don't like the hole alignment or hole sizing, I very well may go to a local CNC shop and get my custom tops made. I live in the Phoenix area, so there should be multiple shops that can do this for a reasonable price here (I hope).

I have seen TSO products before, but I keep forgetting about them (bad memory), so thanks for reminding me again. When I am first looking for a unique tool, I usually start with Woodpeckers, but then I try to look around and see if they had copied someone else and/or if I can find it cheaper. I need to start looking at TSO first for these kinds of tools. Also, thanks for reminding me about Stanton's T track on the front of his workbench. I remember the portable MFT that he did and also the front apron MFT on his fixed workbench, but I forgot that he embedded T track on the sides too. With the feedback given here, I am considering the T track on the sides now similar to Stanton's or claimdude's. Also, the back of the cabinet will have the fold-up apron MFT that I talked about, but similar to Stanton I can make it lock in place when down and have this as a vertical MFT on the backside of my workbench.

Yeah, I thought about trying to improvise an arm to attach the Festool rail to the custom MFT...or shoehorn the Festool one onto it. The existing design in my head is to have that fold down apron MFT on the back of my workbench. Unless I make this detachable, I can't immediately think of a way to incorporate some kind of arm to attach the track to the table. I didn't realize that I could get the rails from Festool. I guess if I go that route, I could possibly get the Festool miter gauge and arm for the track mechanism. If I could do the latter, what would be nice about it is that my base cabinet is 6' long so my MFT would be approximately 72" x 28" versus the Festool MFT of 43" x 28". So lots of room to work for crosscuts.

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I just finished up one project in the shop using the RO150 and really enjoyed using it. My pocketbook is still hurting from the RO150 and OF1400, but I am contemplating getting a Festool track saw, track and dust extractor while they are on sale right now (prices will only go up next year). My next few projects incorporate some plywood and I need to update shop furniture, so I'd rather get the track saw now before I get started on all of these sheet goods. Hence all of the questions and thinking about MFT variants...

Does anyone know where/how to get the Festool extruded side rails? I can't find them online, so perhaps I need to contact Festool directly?

[sehast]

There may be others that are cheaper but here is one.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/mft-3-495314

[cham-ed]

I went the pegboard route. And I took a great amount of care in using it and the hole system has worked well for me. Mine is an adjustable height table, which I love. If you can have an adjustable table seriously consider it. When dealing with a full sheet I lower it all the way. That makes it much easier to put the full sheet on the table top. Then I raise it up to a better height.
Under the table top I built a rip off of the Paulk bench (to fit the table I already had). That makes a great tool tray. And I recessed a router plate in the top. The Paulk design gives room for the router.
The Woodworker's Journal April 2018 had a great article on a track saw jig. I modified it to work with my table top. I put t track on the sides of the table so I could slide this fixture system off the table when not in use.
This was all very custom for my use. But I didn't have a lot of money and this cut my cost way down. It may not be for you but it worked fine for my usage.

[RFGuy]

I went the pegboard route. And I took a great amount of care in using it and the hole system has worked well for me. Mine is an adjustable height table, which I love. If you can have an adjustable table seriously consider it. When dealing with a full sheet I lower it all the way. That makes it much easier to put the full sheet on the table top. Then I raise it up to a better height.
Under the table top I built a rip off of the Paulk bench (to fit the table I already had). That makes a great tool tray. And I recessed a router plate in the top. The Paulk design gives room for the router.
The Woodworker's Journal April 2018 had a great article on a track saw jig. I modified it to work with my table top. I put t track on the sides of the table so I could slide this fixture system off the table when not in use.
This was all very custom for my use. But I didn't have a lot of money and this cut my cost way down. It may not be for you but it worked fine for my usage.

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I would love to have an adjustable height worktable in my shop. I am still trying to confine my shop to one bay of my garage. Recently I parked my truck outside for a few weeks while finishing up a project to gain more room. It was during that time that car burglars came through the neighborhood and attempted to steal cars. Fortunately my truck was locked and this was just enough of a deterrent for them to move on to easier targets, but one of the guys saw one of my security cameras and decided to tear it down. Soooo, I am trying to restrain my shop size so that I can put things away each night and return my truck to the garage. With only ~200 sq ft of shop space, it is difficult to fit an adjustable height table unless I dispose of the existing storage that I have. One day though I hope to have a shop big enough to fit an adjustable work table like this. I would love to have it, but boy are those Autoquip hydraulic scissor lifts expensive...for now it is just a dream.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlM0aQ-VpUM[/youtube]

https://autoquip.com/products/scissor-lift-tables/