Shopsmith Forums

I'll start by saying that when we were expecting out first kid some 7 years ago, a coworker loaned me a Shopsmith Mark 5 Model 500 and I used it to make some baby furniture with. After about 2 years with it I gave it back, after purchasing a cabinet base table saw and some other tools of my own.

Now, my wife decided that I needed a Shopsmith and the mounted planer for Christmas, so I'm currently waiting for my Mark 7, the planer, and the premium casters to ship and arrive here.



This next part may seem like just me griping, but please hang with me as I have a question at the end and my gripes prior to it are for background and demonstration.

When I poking around the website for information prior to and after the purchase, I ran into some issues. The first is I noticed that there seem to be two different websites that interlink somewhat. Some items are listed in what looks like an older format for the same website, but on that older format page it will often have listed "you might also be interested in" items that are "* Item Not Found *... $9999.99". One perfect example of both of these issues can be found on on the oscillating drum sander attachment page.

I've also run into several dead links throughout the site.

There's also mention made in the product pages for the Mark V that the 510 model is still available, but there's no place that gives a price or a way to order it.

When I went to place my order, I was splitting the order between a gift card (using it up) and a credit card (for the small amount extra). The order page had some text on it stating that this could be done, but instead it tried to charge the entire amount to my credit card, which bounced. Of course SS customer service took care of it the next day when we called, but I would think the website would work for the orders.

When my Mark 7 shipped, we got an email stating that my tracking number is " ". (Still trying to resolve that, even if it's just to get a weigh bill number and fright company name.)

After registering for the forums, which have a distinct mid-90s look to them, I went to update my profile, just to find that almost every field in the profile section has a duplicate field. I also found it rather nostalgic to see ICQ, AIM, YIM, and MSN all listed there, as I used those from high school until I graduated college and got married (yes, this does date me as likely being on the younger side of the audience here). It was nice to see that more recent social media sites are also listed (FB, G+, YT, Skype, etc).


Now for the meat of it. I've listed all of the things I've found wrong with this site for to ask this question: Is this website being actively maintained or has it turned, at least partially, into a ghost website? I can understand if SS doesn't have the staff with either enough technical know-how, or more likely the time, to update everything. However, I would expect that at least the ordering page issues would be fixed as a high priority. All of the issues my wife had placing the order for the gift card, getting the gift card number, getting the pin number, then me placing the order, then confirming the order, and on, and on...for each of these issues we had to make another phone call or send another email. Each of these times it takes up someone's time to resolve the issue. It's my impression that SS doesn't have a very large staff. If the ordering portion of the website worked well then I think they would have more staff with "free" time to do other things, like fix some of the other issues on here or to help with phone orders.
As for the dead links, I think they could all be identified by a crawler bot and then removed from each of the pages by a simple script.
As a user, I don't mind seeing the issues with pages in different formats or suggested items that aren't found, but it isn't very professional.

I mean, where do the majority of Shopsmith sales come from? I found out about SS through a coworker. I have also seen them a lot on the second hand market. Once I ran across the demonstration in the local Lowe's (which I think is a great, nostalgic way of marketing). However, in this day and age when you find out about a product, you go online to find more information. If it's not listed on Amazon, then you search around until you find the manufacturer's website. A lot of people would come to think that the site is just barely up with some of the issues I ran into.

Sorry for the long post. Just some early morning thoughts while waiting for others to make it in to work.

Adrian,

Welcome to the forum! I liked your post, because I also used my 510 at the time to build the crib for my kids. My oldest is in college now, so your thread definitely triggered a bit of nostalgia. I believe everyone that posts on this forum is a Shopsmith owner (and the occasional spammer), so I don't think any Shopsmith employees post here. I point this out only so that you know that your post is unlikely to be read by the MOTHERSHIP (our affectionate moniker for Shopsmith corporate). IF you want to get Shopsmith's attention, there is a Facebook group called Shopsmith Customer Service and it is checked from time to time by Shopsmith employees. I do ask that you be kind to them there. As you surmised, Shopsmith has a rather small staff these days. You will find forum members here tend to align on one of two sides (optimist or pessimist). Some believe Shopsmith will always be in business in some form or fashion while others have very real concerns with regard to replacement parts and future availability and/or servicing (PowerPro in particular). Honestly it is a credit to Shopsmith that they have remained in business for many, many decades despite a couple of bankruptcies along the way. With cheap tools readily available from China at Harbor Freight and good quality woodworking power tools being designed in US, but made in China now by big woodworking tool brands, it is an uphill battle that Shopsmith faces staying in business and keeping most of their production in US. Just my opinion...

So, getting back to some of the points you made, unfortunately some of Shopsmith's systems such as order tracking, website orders, old website is still in place and not secure (no HTTPS) next to new website, etc., etc. are all due to the items that I highlighted above. Remember Shopsmith is an old school US based manufacturing enterprise that simply has limited capital to upgrade or expand. There are some good threads related to customer service at Shopsmith below if you want some light reading. However, best advice that I can offer is call them. Sometimes getting through can be a pain. I ordered quite a few parts and accessories (building up my doomsday supply ) last year and often sat on hold for 20 minutes but once I got a live person on the phone they were usually helpful. Unfortunately, Shopsmith doesn't inform you easily when a part is not available. It is not uncommon to order an accessory and have to wait 6 months for Shopsmith to go build it and ship it. Again, this is why you have to call them. They won't automatically split orders to send you available items, so you have to call and ask for this, if you want it. With regard to items costing $10k on the website, that is Shopsmith's not so subtle way of telling customers that a part is no longer available and has been EOL'ed. Some of the accessories that were available when I first got my Shopsmith over 2 decades ago are no longer sold new from the factory. Similarly, I think Shopsmith finally stopped selling the 510 model in favor of the 520.

Finally, I just have to ask if this is what you want? Your post seems to indicate that your wife decided you had to have a Shopsmith. Maybe I am reading too much into this, but just curious if this is what you want. A Shopsmith Mark 7 is an amazing machine and can do a lot, but it also has some downsides too. Most notable is the breaking down of one function to do another function. Your thread indicated you already had a cabinet table saw and some other tools. IF you have a large shop you can choose to have dedicated tools for every function rather than a multi-tool like the Mark 7. Not trying to talk you out of a Shopsmith purchase, but I also want you to be happy with your purchase at the end of the day. For myself and many others on this forum, our Mark V's are a very good tool, but also we have an emotional connection to it (as I mentioned at the beginning of my post). Unfortunately, we have to tolerate some rough around the edges things when it comes to Shopsmith corporate as they are doing the best that they can with a small staff in a very challenging business environment.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/comm ... 23108.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/comm ... 22987.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/comm ... 22640.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/comm ... 22341.html

RF Guy covered most of what you were talking about. The Mark V 510 was discontinued last year but as you found links still exist. Other models have been discontinued as well. The original Mark V table system of the 500 and the 505 without the floating tables of the 510 are gone. Replacement parts specific to the 500 are no longer made so as the supply is used up they are no longer available. I believe the same will happen to the 510 specific parts. In that case there aren't that many different parts between it and the Mark V 520 and is a less expensive upgrade to the 520. As for your purchase of the Mark 7 since this is the "flagship" model it should be around for a long time, or as long as Shopsmith/RLF Brands is operating.

Another issue that has been a problem for Shopsmith was the change over in employees. Most of the long time employees have recently retired so new employees replacing them have a large learning process to understand the tools like the older employees did. With all the changes that have occurred in the Mark 5 since its introduction in 1954 and the related SPT's it can be difficult to get good information on older models. Sometimes you best answer can be found here. As an example I bought a used Band Saw on eBay a few years ago that was damaged during shipping. The Main Frame Assembly was damaged at the mounting posts so I wanted to replace it. I talked to Shopsmith who told me the part was the same since its introduction but that was incorrect. The Bushings for the table trunnion bolts were pressed in on earlier models but slip in on later ones. I did buy a new Main Frame Assembly from the mothership. Fortunately I still ended up spending less on the Band Saw because the shipping insurance refunded my original purchase price and I got to keep the damaged tool. It would have cost the insurance company more to have it shipped to Shopsmith to be repaired and back to me than what I paid for it. All I had to do was swap out the parts from the damaged Main Frame to the new one which took around an hour including cleaning transferred parts.

adrianpglover,

Let me add my welcome to the forum to those you have already received.

Your observations and conclusions about the website seem to be entirely correct. I have noticed many inconsistencies and dead ends myself, and my knowledge of websites is only what I have picked up and learned from searching for info as you describe. I have tried reporting some such dead ends (the links to on-line videos such as Sawdust Sessions and Video Tips) to the webmaster, and once it got the on-line video working again, but recently I was not so lucky.

A hint as to Shopsmith's desire to improve its website is perhaps the "Careers at Shopsmith" under the Contact Us tab, where there is an opening for an IT specialist.

https://www.shopsmith.com/careers/

Since you seem to be a computer savy person, maybe you know someone who might want to apply?

One area where I think Shopsmith stands out from the competition is this forum and its members. Having access to this forum is a veritable encyclopedia of all things Shopsmith. Yes, other tool brands have forums and social media presence (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.). Have you tried searching on these other forms of social media? They aren't setup for it. Digging back through timelines to find useful information can be a real challenge sometimes. Just one example of other tool forums, is I recently started acquiring some Festool equipment. While, I love the equipment, the FOG forum doesn't even compare to this Shopsmith forum. There is a lot of information there (FOG), but seldom are there pictures. If there are pictures, the servers that originally housed said images are long gone. Searching for exactly what you want can be difficult there. In comparison, I think the Shopsmith forum is so easy to use and has vastly more useful content than many of these other platforms. I mean I haven't searched every tool vendors forums/social media, but just saying I think this forum is a differentiator for Shopsmith. While the front office may be a bit thin at present due to some retiring personnel, there is a wealth of support on this forum for any Shopsmith owner needing help. Not to mention the eager gurus that often step in and assist many of us with technical or other support issues with our equipment on this forum. A thank you to all of you that make this forum great...