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Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:16 am
by tbolish
So finally I’ve gotten my 510 I bought back in December completely rebuilt and running, however there’s an occasional squeal from the head stock that sounds like the belt (think power steering belts on a car) that comes and goes intermittently.
Quite frustrated, I’ve completely replaced everything I possibly could, except the for the idler bearing (next on my list) and the pork chop on the speed control.
All other bearings, including the motor have been replaced with the Koyo sealed bearings. Belts were replaced, and also the control sheave with the little button. Squeal just comes out of nowhere occasionally, even after tensioning the idler belt. Any ideas ? Speed dial isn’t as smooth as I’d like either
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:05 am
by DLB
I have not experienced this, but some questions or things to think about:
When does it happen? (Only or more often when you are doing specific operations, at certain speeds, just sitting there running at any speed, when changing speed, etc.)
Source of new belts? (Shopsmith, or if aftermarket where'd they come from.)
If it occurs while doing work, is it slipping?
Does the pitch of the sound change with headstock speed?
Anything getting hot?
Do you know if the issue was present before you rebuilt the headstock?
Is the Poly-V lined up correctly in terms of which grooves it is in, and is it staying there (running true)?
The lower belt is tensioned by the speed control, so not impossible that your speed control and noise issues are related. Were both moving sheaves moving freely on their shafts when you had it apart? Did you oil them when you put it back together? Was the condition of the shafts and keys good?
- David
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:39 pm
by JPG
My suspicion would be idler bearing.
I would simply tolerate it if intermitent until it isn't.
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:31 am
by tbolish
DLB wrote:I have not experienced this, but some questions or things to think about:
When does it happen? (Only or more often when you are doing specific operations, at certain speeds, just sitting there running at any speed, when changing speed, etc.)
Seems more often when slow, but hard to tell as volume increases. Like I said though, it’s intermittent and comes seemingly at random.
Source of new belts? (Shopsmith, or if aftermarket where'd they come from.)
Shopsmith
If it occurs while doing work, is it slipping?
Yes, no skipping or loss in power noticed.
Does the pitch of the sound change with headstock speed?
Yes
Anything getting hot?
Slightly warm, but figured the headstock heats up a bit anyway?
Do you know if the issue was present before you rebuilt the headstock?
Not sure, sheaves were completely stuck together and the old belts were shot, couldn’t even change speed - hence the rebuild after getting it for cheap.
Is the Poly-V lined up correctly in terms of which grooves it is in, and is it staying there (running true)?
Yes as far as I can tell
The lower belt is tensioned by the speed control, so not impossible that your speed control and noise issues are related. Were both moving sheaves moving freely on their shafts when you had it apart? Did you oil them when you put it back together? Was the condition of the shafts and keys good?
Oiled pretty generously, shafts and keys seemed ok.
- David
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:56 pm
by JPG
Not to be persnickety, but when replying IN a quote, it really is sooo much easier to comprehend IF the replies are a different color.
re the poly v belt, how many empty grooves on the quill end of the drive sleeve pulley?
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:24 pm
by tbolish
As for the text, I totally thought it would do it automatically for some reason, ha.
I have the pull out face plate, so I’m thinking it needs 2 grooves on the main drive visible.
Took the machine apart again after I almost had a catastrophic failure....when trying to speed up from slow to fast my speed wasn’t changing...opened up the headstock to see that the motor sheaves were stuck!
Turns out the key somehow slipped and the sheaves got pushed out of wack. Amazingly nothing seems damaged, so I put it all back together and the sheaves run smoothly after a thorough cleaning and putting a lot of oil on the shaft.
Since I had the machine apart, I inspected all my other bearings and sheaves. Sadly the brand new quill bearings I recently replaced were already a little rough feeling. The bigger one was a Koyo, which was surprising, the smaller one was a cheap amazon purchase so I kind of express that....bought new ones recommended by Jacob Anderson for my version of the quill (2 piece w roll pin) along with a new idler shaft, clip, and key from him as well since it was the only thing not replaced at this point...will update with the status of the repair when the parts get in.
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Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:59 pm
by jsburger
tbolish wrote:As for the text, I totally thought it would do it automatically for some reason, ha.
I have the pull out face plate, so I’m thinking it needs 2 grooves on the main drive visible.
Took the machine apart again after I almost had a catastrophic failure....when trying to speed up from slow to fast my speed wasn’t changing...opened up the headstock to see that the motor sheaves were stuck!
Turns out the key somehow slipped and the sheaves got pushed out of wack. Amazingly nothing seems damaged, so I put it all back together and the sheaves run smoothly after a thorough cleaning and putting a lot of oil on the shaft.
Since I had the machine apart, I inspected all my other bearings and sheaves. Sadly the brand new quill bearings I recently replaced were already a little rough feeling. The bigger one was a Koyo, which was surprising, the smaller one was a cheap amazon purchase so I kind of express that....bought new ones recommended by Jacob Anderson for my version of the quill (2 piece w roll pin) along with a new idler shaft, clip, and key from him as well since it was the only thing not replaced at this point...will update with the status of the repair when the parts get in.
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Going cheap on bearings is never good. Timken/Fafnir is what Magna used originally and they are the best. Lots of Model 10's are running today with 70 year old Fafnir bearings. Yes they cost more but now you have spent probably the cost of good bearings plus the time and effort to replace them twice.
Do it right and just fix it once in your life time.
Just my opinion.
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:07 pm
by JPG
What does the face plate have to do with the positioning of the poly-v belt on the drive sleeve pulley?
Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 2:19 pm
by tbolish
If I recall, instructions that came with the poly-v belt from Shopsmith say which groove to install it on based upon the face plate style.
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Re: Intermittent squealing/squeaking after rebuild...?
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:02 pm
by JPG
tbolish wrote:If I recall, instructions that came with the poly-v belt from Shopsmith say which groove to install it on based upon the face plate style.
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I do not recall ever seeing that.