Shopsmith Forums

I sharpen my lathe gouge using the ss sharpening jig. I get a nice round bevel that puts a small burr on the edge. It cuts very well for a short time and gets dull very quickly. I didn't remove the burr at first, then started honing the edge with a stone. Frankly, getting the same result-a dull chisel. Am I doing something wrong? If I should be honing the edge, where does one buy a round honing stone?

BTW, I'm turning pen blanks and now a 9"black walnut bowl (which is very hard wood).

Bob
San Diego

Bob

You didn't mention what setting you are using on your sharpening guide when you sharpen the gouge. I have done the initial angles on all my chisels as what was recommended by one of the Traveling Academy Instructors and have been real pleased with the results. The setting I was given at a traveling academy by Mike Cobb was 13 to the left for the roughing gouge(which is equivalent to a 32 degree angle) and 4 to the left on the bowl gouge(which is equivalent to a 41 degree angle). There is a table 24-1 in the 4th edition of power tool woodworking for everyone that shows the settings on the sharpening guide and what angle you would get. I also have a slow speed grinder and a wolverine jig set up so in the event that I need to touch up the edge while I am in the middle of a turning project, I use that method, but still duplicate the angles that I originally put on the chisels with the SS sharpening guide. In fact my favorite gouge is still the original SS roughing gouge that came with my SS when I purchased it many years ago. Don't know if this response will be helpful to you or not, but again I get good results with the angles recommended. I never have honed my chisels, so don't know if this makes a difference or not. I once had a turning instructor tell me that it was not necessary to hone turning chisels like you would need to do for hand chisels or plane blades, etc. In fact I just recently turned a football using yellowood (which is not recommended to be used for turning, but it was all that I had available for this particular project) and this item was 6 inches thick and 12 inches long and never had to re-sharpen from start to finish. I have had to touch up a chisel when using a real hardwood blank for a bowl, but never for something like a pen blank. Hope this helps you.

Bob,
Honing a lathe chisel is not advocated by most experienced turners because it's just not necessary, as you have already learned, and it's just one more step to take time away from work on the actual project. As for how quickly the tool dulls depends on a number of variables such as; type of metal in the tool, type of wood being cut, has the tool been over heated, etc. You will probably have to re-touch the tip many times during a project to keep it sharp.

I took a bowl turning class a couple weeks ago. The chisel gets quite hot during the turning as do the shavings (ended up wearing a glove on my left hand). Even though the bowl gouge was HSS (Sorby brand), I resharpened it twice during the carving of the bowl. At home, I no longer use the SS sharpening guide. I now use the Oneway Wolverine jig and a 6" grinder. With the bowl gouge jig I get much better results in less time.

The Woodsmith podcasts (google them) had one recently about sharpening turning tools. The main focus was technique of sharpening, but also part of the seminar was just how "sharp" lathe tools need to be, i.e., to what nth degree does one need to go to sharpen them. I was surprised by the answer. But I was also surprised at how often he mentioned that he returned to give the tools a quick "touch up" while turning.

Bob-
While there are those who advocate honing, I was taught at a TA to leave the burr on, that the cutting action will remove it. If you use a soft wood to turn, it will dull a chisel faster than a hard wood, much the same way paper will dull a knife edge.

How often do you sharpen your tools? After a turning session, I sharpen my chisels afterward in preparation for the next time I use them. I was told that a chisel will only hold its edge for around 15 minutes before a resharpening is needed. Another factor is the type of wood being used. I guess that's why I like to have multiples of the same chisel I'm using. Finally, I sharpen my chisels when they are newly purchased. I found out never to assume the factory edge is ready to go right out of the box. If you do that, you end up with a much duller chisel to sharpen than you would want. I have used chisels that have been honed and not honed and, to be honest, I can't tell the difference. So, for me, honing is an unnecessary step.

I have used both the sharpening jig and the strip sander sharpening attachment and I favor the strip sharpener. Again, that is a matter of personal preference.

Hope that helps,
BPR

Bob...

FWIW, I really like my ss gouge. Been using it for years and sharpening it has never really been a problem. I sharpened it by hand (and eye) for a lot of years, using a set of coarse, medium and fine diamond stones, but a few years ago I began using the ss sharpening system for the rough and medium shaping and sharpening. So far, I have had to grind, or rough shape, the gouge only once. The angle of the bevel had changed somewhat during my years of freehand shaping. Once the bevel angle was ground according to what the SS TA's teach I have been able to maintain a sharp edge with the medium and fine flat diamond stones. And a hard arkansas slip stone.

The routine goes like this: holding the gouge with the business end upright in my left hand, handle snugged up tight under my arm, I polish the bevel with the diamond stones, using a motion that is mostly up and down, but with a litle figure-eight thrown in. I sharpen/polish until I feel that a burr has been turned up inside the gouge, then with the slip stone pressed tightly to the inside of the gouge, I use a back and forth motion to get rid of the burr. Be careful here not to let the slip stone rock downwards as it comes out of the gouge. I think of the inside of the gouge like I would the back side of a plane iron or a chisel. You don't want any angle on that side of the tool. And you certainly don't want a burr. This system works for me and depending on the wood and how heavy the cuts, the edge should last much longer than the "short time" you are experiencing.

Scrapers are a different story. On these, I work to turn up a nice burr and leave it. It makes the cutting edge on a scraper. Gouges, as I say, cut like chisels, not like scrapers.

Hope this is helpful

rdewinter wrote:I sharpen my lathe gouge using the ss sharpening jig. I get a nice round bevel that puts a small burr on the edge. It cuts very well for a short time and gets dull very quickly. I didn't remove the burr at first, then started honing the edge with a stone. Frankly, getting the same result-a dull chisel. Am I doing something wrong? If I should be honing the edge, where does one buy a round honing stone?

BTW, I'm turning pen blanks and now a 9"black walnut bowl (which is very hard wood).

Bob
San Diego

check out,
http://www.woodworkinglathe.com/page4.htm

I use the Shopsmith lathe tools. I now have ground them to about 32 degrees - I used 13 to 14 degrees left on the SS Sharpening jig. I grind with fine paper (150 grit) on the belt sander. Then I strop all chisels to a mirror finish both outside and inside. (Exception is the scraping chisel.) This is possible using the little leather wheel and white honing compound. Depending on the number of items I am making, I re-strop often using the little wheel. I re-strop every time I feel that additional pressure is needed for the right size shavings to come off of the turning. With repeated stropping there is no need for grinding very often. Grinding only when stropping no longer gives the results desired. The strop I use is like the flat one here: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=220 Maximum turning speed is 400 RPM. They are designed to work in hand drills, but mine also works good at 750RPM (Slow) on the Mark V. I think I'll be getting one of the "V" strops for my 'V' carving gouges. I just noticed yesterday, my strop only cost $8.95. That was a long time ago.

In wood carving classes, most carvers re-hone their knives and gouges about every 20 minutes of use (rule of thumb). Grinding? - about once or twice per year.

I have been very pleased with the results during making of pepper mills (walnut) salt mills (hard maple) and recently, 4 hammer handles for the coming brass hammers (hard maple). The only turning I had an issue with was turning Banksia pods. Here the finished edges were good, It was just the flying Banksia pieces. Good thing I was warned about that! Had to wear big eye shields and keep my mouth shut. Should have had a face mask.

I am a novice turner and have never done a bowl or a pen, but have turned my share of objects and cylinders. I also have been told that honing of tools is not necessary, however I use the same methods that have served me well with carving tools and bench chisels. For me it also works with lathe tools.