Shopsmith Forums

I have been using the ProStop for a few weeks and now have a good feel for how it preforms. If you are interested have a look at these videos which do a good job reviewing its setup and basic capabilities. I will try not to repeat their content in this review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7FhLaxbhgM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZPXW6998o8&t=19s
Web site: https://www.proscale.com/products/indus ... s/prostop/
As you can see the rails are heavy gauge aluminum and the stop assembly is very heavy duty with two clamps for solid placement on the rails. The readout has a very smooth display of large, easy to read numerals with no erratic jumping like some inexpensive readouts. The encoder smoothly rides on substantial scales that are attached to the back of the rails. Once the rails are mounted with the bolts loosened there is enough play to get precise alignment with the saw fence. I used my track saw rail guide’s edge for alignment. If removal of the rails is necessary for some reason then re-installation and re-alignment is fairly easy.
One thing to understand when ordering is that the rail lengths specified are 6 inches shorter than the actual rail length. This is to specify the measuring limit of the rail combined with the stop. The stop assembly can take up to 6” of the rail reducing its measurement capability. Since my miter saw station has two wings, one on each side, I wanted a rail for each side. ProScale cut the 94” (100” actual) rail for me free of charge. I had them cut it into a 40” piece for the left side and a 60” piece for the right side. It is pretty easy to quickly swap the stop assembly from side to side. I ordered the 12” Reach-in stop plate to be mounted on the stop assembly which allows cuts from 0” to 33” on the left side. Then when I move the assembly to the right side, cuts can be made from 18” to 72” without changing the reach-in plate configuration at all. I also ordered two additional Quick Sets so I have two for each side. Once the Quick sets are accurately placed they can be used to quickly calibrate the stop assembly when switched from side to side. By using the Quick sets and the user defined digital offsets stored in the readout several measurement configurations can be quickly recalled with just a push of a couple of buttons.
I set the Quick set on the left side to zero out the reach-in plate on the saw kerf. On the right side I use a straight edge bar to set the quick set 24” from the saw kerf. Once the positions of the Quick sets are properly dialed in by making repeated test cuts, the repeatability of cuts is very close to if not .001”. I don’t claim to have the ability to measure repeatability with that kind of accuracy but it looks sufficient for any woodworking requirement. When I make switches from side to side I use the Quick sets to quickly calibrate the readout and after some practice I now can make the change in about 2 minutes. Accuracy is well within the .01” claimed. I usually set the read out to the fractional 1/64” setting which works well for most of my cutting requirements. I see no advantage to the 1/16” or 1/32” settings because you still have to go through the bars displayed to get to the end value desired. Occasionally, I use the decimal inch readout set to just two decimal places or .01 inches. I find it to have little value if set to three decimal places or .001” and kind of a distraction for normal use but I do use it to get maximum accuracy when initially setting up the Quick sets. I rarely use the millimeter setting but when I do I set it to just one decimal place or 0.1 mm. Pictures show a 1 inch cut and resulting accuracy. I typically get between .001” and .008” accuracy errors which is well within the .01” spec. Since the 12” reach-in plate is not long enough for use with my fixture board, I made an additional 8” stop out of MDF that can be tightened down anywhere along the WoodAnchor slot in the fence. The fixture board is explained in more detail here.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26185
I use the additional stop in conjunction with the 12” stop plate to make quick and accurate cuts on small pieces. This completely eliminates the need for setup blocks or rules for common cuts. I just set the readout to zero and cut a thin slice off the MDF stop to quickly zero it out. These pictures show a 20 mm cut and resulting accuracy. I found Mike (mike@proscale.com) to be very helpful in answering my questions and helping me order the configuration I needed. I had my system within a week of the order and the packing materials were the best I have ever encountered. The heavy duty cardboard and wooden blocks ensure the rails arrive in pristine shape. The only negative I have to report are the errors in the operator’s manual as to how to get into the programming mode. I had to go to the website to read the most frequently ask questions to find the proper procedure. I could cut them some slack if the errors were just in the printed hard copy but they also were in the easily corrected online PDF version.
Overall I think the system is great. It makes short work of a long cutlist of parts without the need of a tape or rule. With a little work I can accurately measure and cut pieces up to 105”. First I cut both ends of the board square and then move one of the edges up against the stop assembly set at 72” on the right side. Then I clamp the board and move the stop up against the other end of the board on the left side where I can accurately measure up to another 33”.
Another major use for me is to easily make my own unique setup blocks or story sticks which I use a lot for various table saw, bandsaw, track saw or table router setups. If I need a 5.25” setup all I need to do is cut and label a scrap piece of MDF or hardboard to that exact dimension instead of trying to put a couple of 1-2-3 blocks together with some smaller fractional inch blocks. Same goes for longer story sticks, just cut and label one stick for each dimension needed.
The ability to accurately measure larger parts is a great secondary use of the system. I think of the ProStop system as a huge digital caliper capable of measuring anything up to 105” at an accuracy of .01” and if you need to work in millimeters just a push of a button gives you the value. I think I will start using millimeters a lot more since it is so easy to switch back and forth with the ProStop.
Is it really worth the cost? That is a more difficult question which is always an issue for expensive tool purchases. The ProStop system is a quality tool that will have a long service lifetime backed by what looks to be a dependable company who has been in business for several years. Tape measures and rules work just fine and I have been successfully using them for many years but the ProStop system is much easier to use to get consistently accurate cuts. The cost effectiveness will have to be a personal decision but it is certainly worth the cost for me. While I can’t vouch for its performance, ProScale also offers a less capable system called DigiStop that is less than half the cost of the ProStop system.

Steve,

Thanks for the very thorough and useful review. It looks like a very nice system with excellent accuracy and repeatability. I have been drooling over the ProScale system for a while now, but couldn't really see a way to add it easily to my Mark V or my miter saw, etc. setups. Could you possibly post a pic or two of the backside of your fence and how the rails work with the Proscale on your setup? I have watched a lot of the videos online for it before, but never really saw any "custom" mountings for it. Often the videos primarily show it in operation and don't get into the nitty gritty details of how everything mounts. The real key with any of these systems is how the encoders and scales mount to the tool of interest without being in the way, etc. Also surprised to hear you say that they can cut the scales to any length. I knew the competing Wixey system had rails that could be cut, but when I looked at the ProScale website they just looked like they were fixed lengths and not as customizable. Maybe I misunderstood what is possible for it...guess I should have reached out to them for more details. Your post here definitely gives me more courage to investigate this system again and attempt to put it to work in my shop.

Look at the 7:52 mark in the first video. It shows the encoder and scale in very close up detail. The rails can be cut by the user or by the company before shipment. I saw no reason not to let them do it and be responsible for any issues in cutting through the scale.

That’s a really slick setup, Steve. I pretty much only use a miter saw when I need something portable, but I’d love to outfit my 14” DeWalt RAS with a ProStop system.

I’m not surprised that the ProStop is that accurate, as precision digital readouts have been available for machine tools for several decades now. But I am surprised that you’re getting such good repeatability from a sliding compound miter saw.

I still have a cheap 12” Ryobi CMS that’s OK for rough carpentry, but I no longer even try to make precision cuts with it. The plunge mechanism is so compliant that just a little inadvertent side pressure on the handle can throw the cut off by maybe 1/32”.

So I recently bought a non-sliding Makita LS1221 CMS, based on it’s reputation for rigidity. The difference is night and day, subjectively, but I haven’t really run any repeatability tests on it yet.

To get such good repeatability with your Kapex, do you have to be careful to not apply side pressure to the handle when cutting?

" do you have to be careful to not apply side pressure to the handle when cutting? " Or apply consistently directed side pressure?

JPG wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:09 pm " do you have to be careful to not apply side pressure to the handle when cutting? " Or apply consistently directed side pressure?

I have not noticed any issues but I have not specifically look for any either. When cutting 1" pieces and then measuring them with digital calipers to zero in the Quick sets I don't see any discontinuities. Maybe I will try to intentionally put some lateral force on the saw during a cut to see what the effects are. I do have to be careful when using the depth stop to cut dados or tendons. In that case I establish the depth outside the work piece and then steadily push the blade through the cut with care. In that regard the depth stop on the Kapex is much better than the Makita I previously owned but it still is an operation that requires care.

Dennis and JPG got me thinking about verifying the cutting accuracy of the Kapex which had not occurred to me until now. I tried to do a good test where I set the ProStop to a resolution of .01" which is my normal cutting mode and at 1" to the left of the blade and locked it down. I then made 10 cuts in Baltic birch plywood with the Kapex using my normal procedure of lowering the blade and steadily pushing forward into the cut careful to stop the blade from spinning before lifting it up. I then measured each of the cut pieces with a digital caliper. Seven pieces measured 0.996" and three pieces measured 0.995". I then made three more cuts where I applied moderate lateral pressure to the saw forcing it to the left during the cut. Two pieces measured 0.991 and one measured 0.992 indicating that a really bad sawing technique might contribute up to .005" of error. These tests convinces me that for normal cuts when using proper technique the Kapex adds no more than .001" error to the cut and most probably not even that. Therefore the errors I am seeing using the ProStop should be due to the ProStop system itself which includes the resolution I select and the technique I use to set and lock down the stop on the rails.
Dennis do you get similar accuracy/repeatability cut results on your RAS?

sehast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:35 pm Dennis do you get similar accuracy/repeatability cut results on your RAS?

Well now you've got me curious, and I'll have to measure and see. I'd like to compare my old Ryobi CMS, my new Makita CMS, and a 9" cast-iron DeWalt MBF RAS made in 1955. I haven't found time to get my 14" RAS set up and under power yet, but the little 9" DeWalt subjectively feels much more rigid than even the Makita CMS. But the proof is in the cutting -- hopefully this weekend.

Another test I thought of was to make some wide cuts to see how straight the rails are. I used a 10" wide piece of hardboard and cut 1" strips. I then measured the width of both ends of the strips and found less than a .001" difference grouped around .997" to .998". I always thought this thing was dead on accurate and now I have verified it. Any errors I get will be due to the setup not the saw.

The fence is straight, the stops are reliable and accurately adjustable and the blade is square to the fence and does not wobble.

Does that accurately state the attributes???