Shopsmith Forums

The reduction in parts to stock is a good possibility for the double tilt and if all the table posts will be cut on both sides for reversing, that makes sense too. It could also explain the newer advertising for the table upgrades going to Mark 7 and not Mark V 520. There has been a difference between the Mark V 520 Table System and the Mark 7 Table system being the table posts. Will future Mark V 520's sold also include the double tilt feature?

The 520S reminds me of the old 505, just with the newer rails.

Brenda,

I felt the same about the 520S too.

Roy,

You asked,

So, where's the Mark 3?

Maybe it has been here all along. With 26" way tubes the Shop Deputy may qualify as the Mark 3

Bad copy or some sort of magic? The Mark 4 is 55" long so assuming the old version is 72" that would mean they cut 72-55=17 inches off machine. This is reasonable as my shorty is 16" shorter.

So here comes the bad copy or magic. The lathe feature is still at 34"???? Well to me this is something that will need to be fixed as the turning capacity should now be more like 34-17= 17".

That is what stood out to me at first glance. Should have stood out to them as well.

Ed

This is just my opinion, but this new Mark 4 offering and the stripped down Mark V 520/Mark 7 offerings reek of desperation to me.

The Mark 4 amounts to a factory shorty/mini and, when sold as a "base" model, is pretty darn useless except to drive whatever SPTs you already own.
And the price! Hardly a month goes by when, for far less than what they are asking for the "base" model Mark 4, I couldn't pick up either a full 520 or a full 510 with more than enough money leftover to buy the 520 rails and rip fence to convert the 510 to a Mark 4. Oh, and a hack saw to cut down the tubes. It would probably come with some SPTs to boot. And if I wanted just to be left with the base model Mark 4, I could probably part out what I didn't need and and probably end up with Mark 4 for close to $0 and certainly way less than what they are asking. I suppose a factory warranty is worth something. But not that much!

I realize not every part of the country or world regularly has cheapo 520s and 510s to be had, but I just can't see how this provides something that potential owners have been asking for at a price that would be attractive.

I'm also less than impressed with the idea of selling the Mark V 520 or Mark 7 as a base model that can be added to by later buying the sawing package, drill press/horizontal boring package, disc sanding package and lathe packages separately. Call this the "Burger King have it your way" business model. I would guess very few people want to buy a new 520 or Mark 7 because they only want a drill press/horizontal boring machine, or only a table saw or only a disc sander or only a lathe. The attraction is all in one, even if you think you might only use some functions infrequently or even if you never use them.

So if you are buying this stripped 520 or Mark 7, it's probably because you are cash starved. But I'd bet Shopsmith could make a lot more money if they continued to sell only fully equipped machines at full price if they teamed up with a finance company to offer cash-starved buyers payment over time. And whatever $$ Shopsmith might lose to the finance company on the deal would likely be exceeded by getting the full purchase price for the full machine up front, rather than waiting to see if the new buyer decided to buy some or all of the various accessory packages.

Again, my $0.02.

I wish Shopsmith well and hope they are in business for a long time to come, but this kind of stuff just makes me shake my head.

algale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:17 pm But I'd bet Shopsmith could make a lot more money if they continued to sell only fully equipped machines at full price if they teamed up with a finance company to offer cash-starved buyers payment over time. And whatever $$ Shopsmith might lose to the finance company on the deal would likely be exceeded by getting the full purchase price for the full machine up front, rather than waiting to see if the new buyer decided to buy some or all of the various accessory packages.

Would offering a finance option really help Shopsmith though? I am just not sure. I mean, typically with these kinds of deals you end up paying like 2x for the product in the end after the financing charges, interest, etc. Would someone who is cash poor really be "okay" with spending $6-8k on a Mark 4, 5, etc. through financing? Seems like a more likely scenario is they go the used route rather than buy new with financing.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:00 pm

algale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:17 pm But I'd bet Shopsmith could make a lot more money if they continued to sell only fully equipped machines at full price if they teamed up with a finance company to offer cash-starved buyers payment over time. And whatever $$ Shopsmith might lose to the finance company on the deal would likely be exceeded by getting the full purchase price for the full machine up front, rather than waiting to see if the new buyer decided to buy some or all of the various accessory packages.

Would offering a finance option really help Shopsmith though? I am just not sure. I mean, typically with these kinds of deals you end up paying like 2x for the product in the end after the financing charges, interest, etc. Would someone who is cash poor really be "okay" with spending $6-8k on a Mark 4, 5, etc. through financing? Seems like a more likely scenario is they go the used route rather than buy new with financing.

I'm not talking about that kind of installment financing. Today, a manufacturer with sales can offer zero interest financing to qualified buyers through third parties. Buyer gets the product today and pays the manufacturer's full purchase price in twelve or twenty-four equal monthly installments, with no interest. Finance company pays the manufacturer the purchase price up front less the financing company's fee, which in these days of low interest rates isn't anywhere near 100%. So the manufacturer takes a hit but probably not nearly as much as the delta between a fully equipped 520/Mark 7 versus a stripped model that may never result in the sale of any of the packages.

algale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:22 pm I'm not talking about that kind of installment financing. Today, a manufacturer with sales can offer zero interest financing to qualified buyers through third parties. Buyer gets the product today and pays the manufacturer's full purchase price in twelve or twenty-four equal monthly installments, with no interest. Finance company pays the manufacturer the purchase price up front less the financing company's fee, which in these days of low interest rates isn't anywhere near 100%. So the manufacturer takes a hit but probably not nearly as much as the delta between a fully equipped 520/Mark 7 versus a stripped model that may never result in the sale of any of the packages.

Yeah, but that is manufacturer financing like car manufacturers offer, right? So, Shopsmith would have to take this on, not a 3rd party finance company. I am not aware of any 3rd party companies offering 0% financing. If there are, then how do they make their money off of the deal?

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:25 pm Yeah, but that is manufacturer financing like car manufacturers offer, right? So, Shopsmith would have to take this on, not a 3rd party finance company. I am not aware of any 3rd party companies offering 0% financing. If there are, then how do they make their money off of the deal?

No, these are independent finance companies for micro sales. Consumer pays the price set by the manufacturer. The finance company collects from the consumer over time at zero interest but pays the manufacturer (Shopsmith) now, albeit a lesser amount than the full amount the finance company will ultimately collect from the buyer. The delta is where the finance company makes it's money.

I've bought a couple bigger ticket items this way the last few years from small manufacturers, most notable a dry suit for my shoulder season canoeing adventures. I can't see the terms of the deal between the manufacturer of the dry suit and the finance company but it's not huge dollars.

This should be especially attractive to Shopsmith because the very best time to get someone to buy the full Mark V/7package is when the initial sale is made. It's how they've always done it and it's the time when the buyer is least disillusioned. Hoping buyers will spend significantly less now for a stripped machine and come back later to buy the drill press or lathe package, for example, loses the time value of the money and risks the loss of the future sales of those accessory parts, especially since someone who buys a stripped machine is likely to be very disillusioned and disinclined to spend more money on something that doesn't actually do anything (or very much) for them.

Am I reading this right? On this page it says a Mark 4 with PowerPro, extension tables, and all of the 5 function packages costs $4198:
https://shopsmith.com/mark4/m4-buy-now.htm

On this page it says a Model 520S with a conventional headstock, extension tables, and all of the 5 function packages costs $4199:
https://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/520s-buy-now.htm

So it looks like the difference in price between short and long tubes + $1 is equal to the difference in price between a conventional headstock and a PowerPro.

And isn't that Mark 4 deal pretty much a shorty Mark 7?