Shopsmith Forums

DLB wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:38 pm

Majones1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:41 pmMark LC

Perfect, no confusion over the Roman Numerals on that one!

- David

L is 50, C is 100 in Roman Numerals = 150.

LC in Roman numerals would be incorrect. You read them left to right, so typically the larger numbers are placed on the left and then you add as you continue to read from left to the right. However, when a smaller number is placed first on the left, it is generally understood that subtraction is expected. In this case, "L" is 50, and "C" is 100, so LC likely means 50-100=-50. So, what does a negative number Mark version indicate???

RFGuy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:49 pm LC in Roman numerals would be incorrect. You read them left to right, so typically the larger numbers are placed on the left and then you add as you continue to read from left to the right. However, when a smaller number is placed first on the left, it is generally understood that subtraction is expected. In this case, "L" is 50, and "C" is 100, so LC likely means 50-100=-50. So, what does a negative number Mark version indicate???

Yes I know that. Just didn't want to get too complicated. My bad. I knew someone would call me on it.

jsburger wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:00 pm Yes I know that. Just didn't want to get too complicated. My bad. I knew someone would call me on it.

No worries...I think I have seen differing opinions of it before, i.e. I don't think the subtraction assumption is written in stone (pun? intended). Unless we time travel back to when the Roman Empire was in its heyday, I don't know if we will know 100% for sure which way is right.

So what is the difference between XIII AND XIIV ?

I surmise never more than 2 subtractors is useful.

JPG wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:07 pm So what is the difference between XIII AND XIIV ?

I surmise never more than 2 subtractors is useful.

Well I think there is only one subtractor allowed. So XIIV would be 10 + 1 =11 and 5 - 1 = 4 so the total is 15. 15 is written XV, 13 is XIII and 14 is XIV. XIIV is incorrect.

I looked up the rules.

Higher values left to right.

A value repeated adds(except *)

A lesser value after a greater value adds.

A lesser value before a greater value subtracts.(*)

Nothing more than 3 in a row. so VI to VIII and IIX to IX i.e. III means 3 more than what precedes it if greater and II can mean 2 less than what follows if it is greater.

Veering off into unimportant details...
The Romans didn't adhere to strict rules, we use an inconsistent set of modern rules. The letters we use to represent the Roman numerals are just approximations of the shape of the actual numerals used, and those were rather inconsistently applied. The modern rules have a lot to do with the representation of years and some of the difficult cases like 1999 which could be formed as either "MCMXCIX" or the much simpler "MIM". Look at most sundials and many a clock and you'll see 4 depicted at as "IIII" breaking the "no more than 3 in a row" rule.

Wow, I'm all numbered out.

I have to agree with what JPS said yesterday.

We be seeking a lost paradise by trying to figger out an irrational process of establishing names over a longer than half century time span by multiple corporate entities.

chapmanruss wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:43 pm Wow, I'm all numbered out.

I have to agree with what JPS said yesterday.

We be seeking a lost paradise by trying to figger out an irrational process of establishing names over a longer than half century time span by multiple corporate entities.

My comment was partly in jest, but I recall a really long time ago (meaning just before Covid) that Mike Young brought this up in the M7 demo. M5/V was named for five tools it replaces, thus M7 for seven tools. I agree, M4/M4+P is a break in that tradition and there are too many exceptions for it to be a rule. I actually did go back through the documentation of the add-ons to see if something was different.

I think buyers are going to realize that these accessories are not as easily separable as the advertising might suggest. For example I rarely use either drill press mode or a disc sander without a fence, miter gauge, or both. And I rarely use a TS, horizontal DP, or disc without an extension table and tubes to stabilize the main table.

- David