Shopsmith Forums

David,

I do generally realize when comments are made in jest or for fun. I threw in that the Shop Deputy could be called a Mark 3 in the same way. My last response was to show that the numbers used can't always add up and we could go crazy trying to figure out how to define a particular Shopsmith.

I do agree that each of the "packages" don't include everything someone might want to have for the intended task. I very often use the rip fence when drilling and other accessories that don't come in a particular package for that function.

chapmanruss wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:55 pm David,

I do generally realize when comments are made in jest or for fun. I threw in that the Shop Deputy could be called a Mark 3 in the same way. My last response was to show that the numbers used can't always add up and we could go crazy trying to figure out how to define a particular Shopsmith.

I do agree that each of the "packages" don't include everything someone might want to have for the intended task. I very often use the rip fence when drilling and other accessories that don't come in a particular package for that function.

+1

chapmanruss wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:55 pm I very often use the rip fence when drilling and other accessories that don't come in a particular package for that function.

Good point. I rarely use my 510 as a saw but I use the fence with all sorts of rotary tools. For horizontal boring and many other operations I'll clamp the workpiece down to the table, but I'll still line it up initially with the fence. And a 520 costs a pretty piece of change by itself:
522359 Fence Asm M7/MV520 (incl 217-232) 0 $302.49

chapmanruss wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:55 pm
I do agree that each of the "packages" don't include everything someone might want to have for the intended task. I very often use the rip fence when drilling and other accessories that don't come in a particular package for that function.

And that is why I believe that if these machines are targeted at first-time Shopsmith buyers, those buyers of these stripped down Mark 4 machines are going to be very frustrated and disillusioned about the capabilities of these machines. It may cause them to buy more of the packages or parts but I suspect the opposite will be true.

They will certainly be disappointed if they don't buy some package or accessory. The machine can't do anything but turn the spindle without purchasing something else.

Despite these questionss surrounding the release of the new products I still think it will be more appealing to customers to have the choices and they'll work out some decent started packages.

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:27 pm ...
I'm a bit surprised they are offering the shorties. I love my 520 shorty. But you definitely notice the change in stability if you use it in a vertical mode. And with DT there is no place to put the Jointer to stabilize the CG. The PowerPro version might be a bit better, but I'd want to confirm.

Overall, I like the a la carte approach to getting the price down some.

After John noted the same concern in another thread regarding Shorty stability as a drill press, I raised this to SS. I received this answer:

• Thank you for your concern regarding the Mark 4
  • o We have a solution for this. A Telescoping Leg
    o It has been in our product line for years
  • This Telescoping Leg is originally intended for the Model-500 machines but will work just as well for your "shorty" and the Mark 4.

This is referring to the 555627 leg. It looks like a good answer to me. They are even sending me one. Alternatively, there are the 510/520 telescoping legs.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:53 pm After John noted the same concern in another thread regarding Shorty stability as a drill press, I raised this to SS. I received this answer:

• Thank you for your concern regarding the Mark 4
  • o We have a solution for this. A Telescoping Leg
    o It has been in our product line for years
  • This Telescoping Leg is originally intended for the Model-500 machines but will work just as well for your "shorty" and the Mark 4.

This is referring to the 555627 leg. It looks like a good answer to me. They are even sending me one. Alternatively, there are the 510/520 telescoping legs.

- David

Is that really going to help a center of gravity issue, if it exists, with a shorty in drill press configuration? I have that leg (item #555627) and it is primarily sold by Shopsmith for main table support when drilling, particularly cutting mortises in drill press mode with a hollow chisel mortiser. I guess I am skeptical it is going to do much to "aid" stability of a shorty drill press. It prevents downward movement of the main table, but that is about it because it is kind of flimsy. Thinking maybe that Shopsmith CS got their wires crossed on this recommendation...

I do not think CS got their wires crossed, but rather another department. That slip fit 'pole' is IMO inadequate for the intended mortising table stabilization. Oh it 'works'(sorta) but I think wishful thinking. I have more faith in a 2x4 and shake shims.

JPG wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:10 pm I do not think CS got their wires crossed, but rather another department. That slip fit 'pole' is IMO inadequate for the intended mortising table stabilization. Oh it 'works'(sorta) but I think wishful thinking. I have more faith in a 2x4 and shake shims.

+10

It is why I gave up on using my Mark V for M&T work...besides who can spare a 2x4 for support at these lumber prices today anyway?

RFGuy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:57 pm Is that really going to help a center of gravity issue, if it exists, with a shorty in drill press configuration? I have that leg (item #555627) and it is primarily sold by Shopsmith for main table support when drilling, particularly cutting mortises in drill press mode with a hollow chisel mortiser. I guess I am skeptical it is going to do much to "aid" stability of a shorty drill press. It prevents downward movement of the main table, but that is about it because it is kind of flimsy. Thinking maybe that Shopsmith CS got their wires crossed on this recommendation...

Is it similar to the 510/520 legs? I think it will help. Will it help enough is a fair question. The CG isn't out past the feet or anything, but as John (jsb) put it you can easily push down on the table and lift the Headrest-end feet off the ground. So heavy material or a lot of drilling force could be a problem. (I suspect you can do this on a full size too, but you have to push a good bit harder.) Ultimately the Mark 4 customers have to decide. I like mine, but like most shorty owners here on the forum I have it in addition to a primary machine. So if it doesn't do something well, it doesn't need to. I think a little stabilization will go a long way, should easily make it as stable as a full size Mark. And probably not nearly as stable as a dedicated DP.

Note - The answer I posted came from Jim M in engineering. My only intent, in bringing this to their attention, was to ensure they thought about its possible safety implications.

- David