Table saw insert

whitey · Post by **whitey** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:21 pm

I am looking for a good reason why the SS table saw inserts for the SS 520 are set below the table top. In order to have flush inserts I have been forced to make them out of 3/8" birch plywood. Any explanation would be appreciated.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:35 pm

You may need to do an internal investigation for an answer to this question. I believe that properly installed inserts will not be below table level.

How much difference are you experiencing?

PS: However, making your own inserts is not a bad idea. You will find several members of this forum, including yours truely, who have and use shopmade inserts; especially zero clearance inserts (ZCI).

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:02 pm

My inserts are level with the table.
Is this a new 520? If so, maybe a manufacturing flaw because those inserts NEED to be level for detail work and safety purposes.
If possible post up a photo of the inserts and the problem and someone will know what to do.

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:24 pm

My guess is that someone didn't read the manual. If Nick were here you might get 50 lashes with a wet noodle but since he is not we will let you off the hook.

In my manual it is on page B-27 titled Installing the table insert in the worktable. To sum it up, start both screws, tighten the rear screw first then as you look at the front you will see that it is sprung up above the table height (by design the inserts are bowed). Push downward on the front with your hand and tighten the front screw until it is flush. BINGO!

Nothing wrong with making your own and ZCI make for a much better cut.

Ed

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:34 pm

reible wrote:My guess is that someone didn't read the manual. If Nick were here you might get 50 lashes with a wet noodle but since he is not we will let you off the hook.

In my manual it is on page B-27 titled Installing the table insert in the worktable. To sum it up, start both screws, tighten the rear screw first then as you look at the front you will see that it is sprung up above the table height (by design the inserts are bowed). Push downward on the front with your hand and tighten the front screw until it is flush. BINGO!

Nothing wrong with making your own and ZCI make for a much better cut.

Ed

I'll take my lashes if they are deserved BUT

are you implying that whitey's inserts, if installed per these instructions, will be flush with the plane of the table top?

Whitey - you have to be the referee here. I have Shopsmith inserts that are bowed and I have Shopsmith inserts that are not bowed. They all settle in flush with the table top

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:42 pm

I'll take some lashes, but only because it sounds like fun!:D

I wonder also, how the blanks are flush but not the factory inserts.

Speaking of that, I need to make some ZCI inserts.

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:52 pm

Hi Dusty,

I'm just reading the manual and that is what it says.

All of my metal inserts have the bow, now I'm talking 505/510/520 ones and they are designed that way. The plastic ones are not. Take a look with your framing square or other straight edge... I never measured it but it is VERY easy to see. If someone has a set of feeler gauges and a warm place to work maybe they can tell us how much. If I had to guess I'd say maybe a 1/16" or so???

This shouldn't be news to most users but it is different then the older 500's and from other companies products. I'm sure I've even seen it mentioned here a time or two before, just like the two different hole sizes in the plates... by design.

Ed

dusty wrote:I'll take my lashes if they are deserved BUT

are you implying that whitey's inserts, if installed per these instructions, will be flush with the plane of the table top?

Whitey - you have to be the referee here. I have Shopsmith inserts that are bowed and I have Shopsmith inserts that are not bowed. They all settle in flush with the table top

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:58 pm

Geeze! I guess I didn't do all of the required reading! A long time ago, I put several layers of masking tape on the table part of the insert. Kept adding tape until the insert(s) were level with the table top. I even called Shopsmith and asked if this was the method they used and was told, by the nice lady, "Yes, it's what I do."

Surprise!!! You mean I can remove my tape - tighten the back screw, then don't snug down the front screw - only turn it in until the insert becomes level? I'll have to give this a try and comment later.

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:07 pm

All this talk of food is making me wish for supper... wonder what the wife has planned????

When I use to make inserts I had material that was 1/4" thick, now I'm having trouble finding things that have not been downsized. I really like to have tempered hardboard finished on both sides but no big box stores around here are selling that anymore... I'll guess I have to expand my shopping radius.

Anyway if you can find real 1/4" or just over material that works fine. When I was doing my last couple I went to some UHMW plastic and had to size it down like can be seen here:

[ATTACH]2594[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]2595[/ATTACH]

As it turned out I was on the money but if it got to thin I would have had to use tape or something to level it... of course you can't leave it high so be it skill or luck they don't always come out right on.

Now if we have some noodles and maybe some tuna fish, mushroom soup... mmm this is starting to come together.

Ed

pinkiewerewolf wrote:I'll take some lashes, but only because it sounds like fun!:D

I wonder also, how the blanks are flush but not the factory inserts.

Speaking of that, I need to make some ZCI inserts.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:34 pm

reible wrote:Hi Dusty,

I'm just reading the manual and that is what it says.

All of my metal inserts have the bow, now I'm talking 505/510/520 ones and they are designed that way. The plastic ones are not. Take a look with your framing square or other straight edge... I never measured it but it is VERY easy to see. If someone has a set of feeler gauges and a warm place to work maybe they can tell us how much. If I had to guess I'd say maybe a 1/16" or so???

This shouldn't be news to most users but it is different then the older 500's and from other companies products. I'm sure I've even seen it mentioned here a time or two before, just like the two different hole sizes in the plates... by design.

Ed

I installed 3 of my metal Shopsmith inserts and using a feeler gauge found that all three are slightly below the plane of the main table. It really did not seem that it mattered whether I snugged the rear screw first or not.

The inserts set from .007" to .008" below the plane of the main table top.

Now, in my world where accuracy to within 1/32" is normally considered over kill, I would call this perfect. However, of late, I recognize that this deviation could be considered excessive.

Recent alignments of my Mark V are regularly being done to much tighter tolerances than I ever employed before. Rick (TA) and this forum can take credit for that. Oh, yes, Shopsmith has a part in this as well.

whitey;

I hope this exercise has done as much for you as it has for me. If this does not lead to a solution to your previously stated problem, please report back and I'll drag out the micrometer and feeler gauges again.