DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

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algale
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DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by algale »

As a result of my recent band saw table extension/circle cutter purchase, I've got a $50 off coupon for purchases $350 and up. I normally ignore these offers because I don't think I've ever dropped that much at one time, but I find myself looking at the DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade.

Questions for those of you who have done the upgrade from DC-3300 to DC-6000:

1. In your opinion is there noticeably better dust collection when using the big dust generators (which I consider to be the table saw, the band saw and the belt sander)?

2. Anyone try it with a Dust Deputy or other cyclone? What does that do to the performance?

3. What did you do or are you doing to do with your old DC-3300 parts from the conversion?

4. Given the choice would you do it again? Or would you spend your money on a different dust collector?

5. Any other thoughts?
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

DLB
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by DLB »

algale wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:38 am As a result of my recent band saw table extension/circle cutter purchase, I've got a $50 off coupon for purchases $350 and up. I normally ignore these offers because I don't think I've ever dropped that much at one time, but I find myself looking at the DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade.

Questions for those of you who have done the upgrade from DC-3300 to DC-6000:

1. In your opinion is there noticeably better dust collection when using the big dust generators (which I consider to be the table saw, the band saw and the belt sander)?
I would say it is somewhat better. More noticeable if connected to two tools, for example Jointer and TS. I have not tried three. Mine has the large filter hood.

2. Anyone try it with a Dust Deputy or other cyclone? What does that do to the performance?

3. What did you do or are you doing to do with your old DC-3300 parts from the conversion?
Planning to sell motor on ebay. Will also sell impeller if possible. Keeping motor housing in case I decide to make a modified DC-6000 housing for improved cooling. (I'm convinced the new housing is made from the old.)

4. Given the choice would you do it again? Or would you spend your money on a different dust collector?
I don't think I would. But to be fair my favored alternative, a Powermatic IIRC, was significantly more money.

5. Any other thoughts?
A) Mine had to go back to SS for leaks, etc. I was not 100% satisfied with that experience because I don't think they investigated my complaint that it overheats, and the repair took longer than I was led to expect.
B) Generally, a motor that is enclosed in a tool housing needs special design consideration if it is expected to perform as intended. The conventional SS headstock is a great example with a very effective (other than sawdust buildup) motor cooling approach that provides for continuous operation. IMO neither the PowerPro nor the DC reflect this sort of consideration in the design and will not support continuous operation. That's proven on the PowerPro, which will shut down when overheated, and I believe the same concern exists on both DC-3300 and DC-6000. I'm reasonably certain the DC-6000 has no thermal protection.
C) It is easier to adapt to 4" dust collection. I mention this because I think you have the same planer that I have. But in practice I don't plane heavily and find the 2-1/2" hose is sufficient. My DeWalt planer pushes a lot of air, so I'm thinking that has to increase CFM even through the 2-1/2" hose (I use a very short one).
- David
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dusty
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by dusty »

algale wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:38 am As a result of my recent band saw table extension/circle cutter purchase, I've got a $50 off coupon for purchases $350 and up. I normally ignore these offers because I don't think I've ever dropped that much at one time, but I find myself looking at the DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade.

Questions for those of you who have done the upgrade from DC-3300 to DC-6000:

1. In your opinion is there noticeably better dust collection when using the big dust generators (which I consider to be the table saw, the band saw and the belt sander)? When using a single port, I see absolutely no difference. Only when using two or three ports do I see any change and then what believe I see is a sharing of capacity.

2. Anyone try it with a Dust Deputy or other cyclone? What does that do to the performance?

3. What did you do or are you doing to do with your old DC-3300 parts from the conversion? Right now they are all parts taking up storage space. I see no value in anything other than the motor and blade (as possible repair parts for a DC-3300).

4. Given the choice would you do it again? Or would you spend your money on a different dust collector? If in the market knowing what I know now, I would give serious consideration to the DC-6000. I would most probably not upgrade but that is biased by the fact that I am mostly a one port user and the upgrade provides . no significant improvement in that single port.
5. Any other thoughts? .I am satisfied with the performance of my DC-3300 (upgraded) but for the money spent I gained nothing other than the experience of making the replacement motor and fan housings fit without leaking. Achieving that (no leaks) might have contributed to some increase in performance (if I could measure it).
"Making Sawdust Safely"
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algale
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by algale »

Thanks David & Dusty for your prompt responses. Excellent observations about little to no dust collection improvement with just a single 2.5" hose attached and better performance noticeable with multiple hoses.

In fact, after I posted I recalled and found a post by Dusty where he attached a pdf of email with Shopsmith engineering which absolutely confirms that there is no claimed improvement over the original DC3300 when using only a single 2.5" hose. According to Shopsmith both the original, unimproved DC3300 and the new DC6000 can only pull 200 cfm through a single 2.5" hose. Improvement of the DC6000 over the original DC3300 is only seen when two or three 2.5" hoses are simultaneously connected. viewtopic.php?p=285257#p285257

Since I have never used two hoses at once, I think that settles it and I am a "no" on the upgrade.
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

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dusty
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by dusty »

algale wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:37 pm Thanks David & Dusty for your prompt responses. Excellent observations about little to no dust collection improvement with just a single 2.5" hose attached and better performance noticeable with multiple hoses.

In fact, after I posted I recalled and found a post by Dusty where he attached a pdf of email with Shopsmith engineering which absolutely confirms that there is no claimed improvement over the original DC3300 when using only a single 2.5" hose. According to Shopsmith both the original, unimproved DC3300 and the new DC6000 can only pull 200 cfm through a single 2.5" hose. Improvement of the DC6000 over the original DC3300 is only seen when two or three 2.5" hoses are simultaneously connected. viewtopic.php?p=285257#p285257

Since I have never used two hoses at once, I think that settles it and I am a "no" on the upgrade.
If you have not already done it, I strongly recommend that you re-gasket the entire air flow system (especially where the motor housing attaches to the main housing). My gaskets were greatly deteriorated and should have been changed long before they were.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
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algale
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by algale »

dusty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:30 am If you have not already done it, I strongly recommend that you re-gasket the entire air flow system (especially where the motor housing attaches to the main housing). My gaskets were greatly deteriorated and should have been changed long before they were.
I've been expecting to have to do that service but do not see evidence of leakage there yet. In fact, a couple of weeks ago when I changed the collection bag, after restarting the DC3300 I turned off the lights in my basement shop and pointed a flashlight (at a tangent) to the grate and did not see evidence of dust be exhausted while in operation. So the question is whether I should be proactive about changing the seals before they fail.

Here's another question for you and other DC3300/6000 owners. If you stand behind the DC3300 there are a series of small openings in the metal legs above the rear wheels. Over time, the openings in mine fill up with sawdust, which I vacuum out every couple of years. Curious if anyone else has observed this phenomenon. I have been guilty on occasion of not promptly changing collection bags but I'm still not sure there is a pathway from inside the dust collector. (I have also ruled out rodents bringing the sawdust in as there is no evidence of nests/droppings or anything other than sawdust/chips.)
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

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dusty
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by dusty »

algale wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:56 am
dusty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:30 am If you have not already done it, I strongly recommend that you re-gasket the entire air flow system (especially where the motor housing attaches to the main housing). My gaskets were greatly deteriorated and should have been changed long before they were.
I've been expecting to have to do that service but do not see evidence of leakage there yet. In fact, a couple of weeks ago when I changed the collection bag, after restarting the DC3300 I turned off the lights in my basement shop and pointed a flashlight (at a tangent) to the grate and did not see evidence of dust be exhausted while in operation. So the question is whether I should be proactive about changing the seals before they fail.

If it ain't broke --- don't fix it.

Here's another question for you and other DC3300/6000 owners. If you stand behind the DC3300 there are a series of small openings in the metal legs above the rear wheels. Over time, the openings in mine fill up with sawdust, which I vacuum out every couple of years. Curious if anyone else has observed this phenomenon. I have been guilty on occasion of not promptly changing collection bags but I'm still not sure there is a pathway from inside the dust collector. (I have also ruled out rodents bringing the sawdust in as there is no evidence of nests/droppings or anything other than sawdust/chips.)
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by bradb »

FE6A290C-AF88-471A-A171-AA3C2C2382F1.jpeg
FE6A290C-AF88-471A-A171-AA3C2C2382F1.jpeg (313.28 KiB) Viewed 3220 times
I got to thinking about the Shopsmith claim of 600 CFM, which is cubic feet per minute. I did some calculations to see how realistic this is. The actual openings on my 3300, which I upgraded to the 6000, is 2 1/4 inch diameter. Since flow rate is equal to velocity times area, to move 600 cubic ft through the area of the (single port) opening, it would have to be over 362 ft per sec, which is over 247 mi per hour! I then calculated the flow rate for a more realistic guestimate of a velocity of 10 mph. The flow rate comes to a bit over 24 cu ft per min. Shopsmith’s numbers are wildly inaccurate.
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by bainin »

I have a JET 650 CFM which I just adapted a 4" Dust Deputy to the front of.
There is a noticeable drop in air flow at the end of my flex tube.

Here is someones' view of a harbor freight collection coupled with a dust deptuty..unfortunately they do not elaborate if this is the old 2" version, 4" or 5" ...all of which are available. They estimate a 2 - 3" drop in static pressure due to the addition of the dust deputy.

All that said-it seems to be working OK on my tool.
dd.JPG
dd.JPG (22.53 KiB) Viewed 3211 times

b
Last edited by bainin on Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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algale
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by algale »

bradb wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:34 pm I got to thinking about the Shopsmith claim of 600 CFM, which is cubic feet per minute. I did some calculations to see how realistic this is. The actual openings on my 3300, which I upgraded to the 6000, is 2 1/4 inch diameter. Since flow rate is equal to velocity times area, to move 600 cubic ft through the area of the (single port) opening, it would have to be over 362 ft per sec, which is over 247 mi per hour! I then calculated the flow rate for a more realistic guestimate of a velocity of 10 mph. The flow rate comes to a bit over 24 cu ft per min. Shopsmith’s numbers are wildly inaccurate.
I can't vouch for your math, but Shopsmith isn't claiming 600 cfm through one hose. They claim 200 cfm per hose and with three hoses a combined 600 cfm.
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

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