DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

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RFGuy
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by RFGuy »

Tiim2Relax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:21 am Hello,

I just wanted to give my opinion which seems different than most.

My DC3000 was over 20 years old. I performed the upgrade and am happy I did. My dust collector works better and quieter. I feel like it gave me a new dust collector for half the price of purchasing new.
Tim,

I am glad the upgrade is working well for you. The main thing, I think, is there is some debate on the forum of "how much" of an improvement the new blower gives a DC-3300. Even the Shopsmith engineer data that was released on the forum only begged more questions than it answered. Those of us who have the measuring equipment haven't purchased this upgrade yet and those that have purchased one can't measure the improvement. Can you tell us what size filter hood you have on your dust collector and did not you notice any improvement in it after the upgrade? For example, the 42" filter hood that I have on my DC-3300 has never fully inflated. IF the upgrade does have more airflow than what it replaces, presumably it would better inflate the filter hood indicating likely higher airflow. Just curious.
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Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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JPG
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by JPG »

I think the amount of cake buildup would affect the 'inflatability"/air flow More cake, less air flow(more back pressure). Then there are possible air intake restrictions?
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RFGuy
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:56 am I think the amount of cake buildup would affect the 'inflatability"/air flow More cake, less air flow(more back pressure). Then there are possible air intake restrictions?
JPG,

Agreed, but there aren't a lot of options for getting an idea of "how well" this new upgrade performs from other members. Just putting your hand and measuring suction is really difficult to assess and you can't do an A/B comparison because once the upgrade is complete you don't have the old DC-3300 to compare against. Not everyone owns an anemometer, like I do.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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dusty
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by dusty »

The level of improvement may be debatable but the upgraded DC6000 works better than the DC3000 when using two or three ports and it is quieter. If using only one port and the others are closed I can not attest to any improvement. My simple tests on air intake speed indicate a bit faster air flow but I am not sure what that buys.

I believe I got one of the very first upgrade kits and I was not satisfied with how everything went together. Details are available in another thread. I do hope that in later releases of this upgrade that the parts fits together better.

After using the DC6000 for awhile now, I would not do an upgrade on my DC3000 but if I didn't have a DC3000 I would give serious consideration to buying a new one.

Having a lot of test equipment for evaluating the DC6000 upgrade would not do much to change my opinion. What matter is does it collect the dust created by my my SPT and it does and I believe quite well.

If I was on a campaign to further improve dust collection I would put all of my effort into the lower saw guard. The lower saw guard is, in my opinion, the WEAK LINK in this dust collection system.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by RFGuy »

Dusty,

Good feedback and good summary. Overall the DC-3300 is a decent dust collector and a great bargain for those that buy it used. I choose not to use mine anymore because of my health and have a different DC setup now. I don't like the filtration of the DC-3300 filter hoods. Maybe one day I will retrofit a HEPA cartridge filter to it like Deicer did (link below), but with a cyclone in front of it (to prolong filter life). I agree completely with you on the lower saw guard. I have done a couple of hacks to mine following what others have done on the forum in the past to minimize dust exfiltration. I almost never tilt my table (for bevel cuts) so I really wish there was a better dust collection lower saw guard for the 0° tilt only position. I have been toying with the idea of reinventing mine for some time now...

viewtopic.php?p=301747#p301747
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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jsburger
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by jsburger »

There is only so much air that can move through a certain size hose. If the DC3300 already maxes out the amount of air that can move through a 2 1/2" hose then moving up to a DC6000 will not improve the air flow through a single hose. However, the real advantage of the DC6000 is with multiple hoses being used at the same time. I believe that someone in another thread said that Jim McCann confirmed that. The DC6000 is capable of moving more air than the DC3300 so if you have 2 or 3 hoses open it will perform better than a DC3300.
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by RFGuy »

jsburger wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:25 pm There is only so much air that can move through a certain size hose. If the DC3300 already maxes out the amount of air that can move through a 2 1/2" hose then moving up to a DC6000 will not improve the air flow through a single hose. However, the real advantage of the DC6000 is with multiple hoses being used at the same time. I believe that someone in another thread said that Jim McCann confirmed that. The DC6000 is capable of moving more air than the DC3300 so if you have 2 or 3 hoses open it will perform better than a DC3300.
John,

I don't think we know and that is the problem. There were A LOT of assumptions made (by ALL of US) on multiple threads about the DC-6000, DC-3300->DC-6000 upgrade kit over the last year or so. I am including the most relevant information from Jim McCann below via Dusty. Interpretations about what exactly Jim meant vary between forum members here. I believe this is ALL the info that we have from Shopsmith on it (other than the published specs that are minimal). IF anyone has ANY more info from Jim McCann or Shopsmith on this, please update it on this thread.

Excerpt from thread at the following link:
viewtopic.php?p=285264#p285264
dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:28 pm OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3300 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".


I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3300 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min. [font=][font=]Is this a DC-3300 with or without the upgrade???? Surely it can't be both and the DC-3300 began as 330cfm[/font][/font]

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by jsburger »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:25 pm
jsburger wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:25 pm There is only so much air that can move through a certain size hose. If the DC3300 already maxes out the amount of air that can move through a 2 1/2" hose then moving up to a DC6000 will not improve the air flow through a single hose. However, the real advantage of the DC6000 is with multiple hoses being used at the same time. I believe that someone in another thread said that Jim McCann confirmed that. The DC6000 is capable of moving more air than the DC3300 so if you have 2 or 3 hoses open it will perform better than a DC3300.
John,

I don't think we know and that is the problem. There were A LOT of assumptions made (by ALL of US) on multiple threads about the DC-6000, DC-3300->DC-6000 upgrade kit over the last year or so. I am including the most relevant information from Jim McCann below via Dusty. Interpretations about what exactly Jim meant vary between forum members here. I believe this is ALL the info that we have from Shopsmith on it (other than the published specs that are minimal). IF anyone has ANY more info from Jim McCann or Shopsmith on this, please update it on this thread.

Excerpt from thread at the following link:
viewtopic.php?p=285264#p285264
dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:28 pm OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3300 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3300 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min. [font=][font=]Is this a DC-3300 with or without the upgrade???? Surely it can't be both and the DC-3300 began as 330cfm[/font][/font]

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
So what is your point? The DC3300 is 300CFM and the DC6000 is 600CFM. That is twice as much air flow. Because of the DC6000's larger CFM it better supports multiple hoses than the DC3300.

Why is there confusion? I understand Dusty says he was confused but It all makes perfect sense to me. A DC3300 is 300CFM. An UPGRADED DC3300 and a DC6000 are the same at 600CFM. I can have more ports open on my 1200CFM ClearVue cyclone than I could on my JDS 600CFM machine and still get adequate dust collection.
John & Mary Burger
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RFGuy
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by RFGuy »

jsburger wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:15 pm So what is your point? The DC3300 is 300CFM and the DC6000 is 600CFM. That is twice as much air flow. Because of the DC6000's larger CFM it better supports multiple hoses than the DC3300.

Why is there confusion? I understand Dusty says he was confused but It all makes perfect sense to me. A DC3300 is 300CFM. An UPGRADED DC3300 and a DC6000 are the same at 600CFM. I can have more ports open on my 1200CFM ClearVue cyclone than I could on my JDS 600CFM machine and still get adequate dust collection.
John,

This has NEVER been confirmed by anyone. There was discussion and debate in the past about whether an upgraded DC-3300 is the same airflow as a DC-6000 or not. Presumably they are, but without someone measuring it, or Shopsmith ACTUALLY quoting it on the website, we don't know. IS it really so hard for a company to actually post the pertinent specs on its website???
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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jsburger
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Re: DC-3300 to DC-6000 upgrade: Yea or Nay?

Post by jsburger »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:25 pm
jsburger wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:15 pm So what is your point? The DC3300 is 300CFM and the DC6000 is 600CFM. That is twice as much air flow. Because of the DC6000's larger CFM it better supports multiple hoses than the DC3300.

Why is there confusion? I understand Dusty says he was confused but It all makes perfect sense to me. A DC3300 is 300CFM. An UPGRADED DC3300 and a DC6000 are the same at 600CFM. I can have more ports open on my 1200CFM ClearVue cyclone than I could on my JDS 600CFM machine and still get adequate dust collection.
John,

This has NEVER been confirmed by anyone. There was discussion and debate in the past about whether an upgraded DC-3300 is the same airflow as a DC-6000 or not. Presumably they are, but without someone measuring it, or Shopsmith ACTUALLY quoting it on the website, we don't know. IS it really so hard for a company to actually post the pertinent specs on its website???
Well, I don't know what more you want from SS. In Dusty's post you quoted above Jim McCann said...

"The performance of the upgraded DC-3300 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

On the SS web page for the DC3300 upgrade kit Shopsmith says...

"This is much more than a "Motor Upgrade", it is a "Performance Upgrade."
This upgrade improves the old DC3300 to perform just like the new DC-6000."

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... pgrade.htm
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
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