docmirror
OK, special thread rules apply now. In order to post in this thread - you have to decode the subject! (whisper it in my ear and then post). :p
Meet Castor:
Well, I have my drill press which was the start of my entry into the SS world. This came from my airplane buddy hangar.
Here's Pollux:
I just picked this up from a town nearby. Went down to get the drill chuck. He wanted $200 for the whole thing, but it wouldn't spin much. I gave him $100 and we loaded it up. I got the drive belt cover off, and it's set on high speed. Also, the upper grooved belt is very loose. The motor turns very slow. I'm guessing the bearings are frozen, or the intermediate shaft bearings are dragging. Having it at the high speed doesn't help at all. I started to take the end frame off the ways, and it got cold so I gave up for the night. I'll get the headstock apart, and clean and lube. Maybe swap some bearings, I bet it'll move.
Some interesting differences between the two. Castor has smooth ways, with no gear rack. Does not like to move on the ways. Not an issue as it'll be locked in place mostly for drilling. Pollux has a gear rack and the headstock moves freely on the ways. The various locking handles are slightly different design and casting. Castor has an aftermarket fwd/bkwd power switch I think. It's a rotary style, I've never seen before. Some stenciling is different as well. Pollux has the vac system installed, I may move that over to Castor, but not sure right now.
My buckets of attachments:
Lathe cutters(where's the tool rest?), jig saw, air comp, cable snake of death(coiled, of course), a steady rest(what we call it in the metal world), and the green sheet formed tin on the left I have no clue. May go mess with it all tomorrow for a while.
algale
Well, it look more like a total of IX/Xths of a Mark VII. But perhaps you'll find that last I/Xth in one of those buckets.
Regarding Castor's smooth ways, from what I understand those tracks could get brittle with age and so as they broke a lot of owners just removed the remnants. Castor has also lost its original Mark VII table/carriage, which has been replaced with a table/carriage combo from a later Mark V 510.
Pollux looks to be in a bit more original condition at least with the table/carriage and tracked ways. If the tracks are in good condition and the mechanism that moves the carriage and headstock on the tracks is properly operating, I might consider using that for the drill press as it might enable easier adjustment of the distance between the headstock and the table while in drill press mode. Also, Pollux comes with its original Mark VII aux table (under the compressor) and I think I remember reading it can be used in drill press mode to brace the main table and make a more solid set up. But I leave it to the Mark VII experts to chime in.
I'll look forward to seeing more of the restoration.
docmirror
Ya know, I was thinking the same thing. If Castor's headstock actually has the geared rack drive to traverse, I would be wise to put Castor headstock on the Pollux frame so it will be easier to adjust the table height for drilling. I'll need to look carefully at the track drive for the ways on Castor headstock. Maybe there are actually a set of pinion gears there that I just missed. Or - I could move the Pollux gear drive over to Castor headstock(hopefully), and then would have the height adjustment.
As for the various table issues, I don't know what I'm looking at yet, but I'll dig in and check the documentation I have from Castor to see if there's a mention of aux table. Anyway, as I move forward, I can do some drilling while I sort through the matrix of possibles. I would like to hook up the compressor and see if that blows. Wonder if a new diaphragm is avail from SS?
JPG
Not sure how/why the castor table carriage is reversed on the way tubes. Some other interesting 'changes' including the 510 table rubber spacer on the quill and something in the quill anti-rotation set screw hole. If doing as Algale suggested re an aux table, IIWM, I would use a M5 aux table and keep the MVII for use use a main table width extender.
Ya need to get real cozy with evaporust and/or electrolysis rust removal.
When removing the end castings to remove the headstock do realize that the floating ends of the bench and way tubes will be unsupported.
Bon Apetite
docmirror
Hmmm, not knowing the orientation of the table on the legs, I just dropped it into the tailstock frame and tilted it. I guess I can swap it around, or use the aux table. Will need to have a closer look. I'll get some evaporust on my way down and do some cleaning.
Yes, on the headstock removal. I'll make up a support like I saw on the MK VII restoration threads. I want to get Pollux headstock off and make up a parts list to call in. Knowing I need the upper belt and likely some bearings.
JPG
Tailstock frame??? That might explain the unusual carriage orientation.
Something is fer sure not as it came from Magna American.
Evaporust is not a "cleaner". :D
chapmanruss
Since you now have 2 Mark VII's you have the option of how to proceed. If they were mine, I would clean up and remove rust from all the parts, decide which is the best of each part and use that on the tool to keep and use. Something I am doing with a pair of Mark 2's. I am not saying you need to do a complete restoration, but a good reconditioning will make it a nicer tool to use. I also see Castor has a drill chuck. Since you plan on using it mainly as a Drill Press having the racks to move the Headstock on the way tubes will be helpful. If the racks are brittle or damaged, you could get a set of 3D printed ones as a replacement. I have seen these for sale on ebay. You mentioned trying the Air Compressor and wondered if Shopsmith still sells the diaphragm. They do not. That Air Compressor is from the 1950's and 1960's. Do know that the Jig Saw is no longer made and Shopsmith no longer makes replacement parts for it either. Suffice it to say any parts needed for your Mark VII, Jig Saw or Air Compressor will have to be found on the used market. There is still some good news in that some newer or current Shopsmith items can still be used on your Mark VII. The Mark V Model 510/505 Table and Carriage you have is an example. That may be the reason you have the Lower Saw Blade Guard for it.
docmirror
JPG wrote
Tailstock frame??? That might explain the unusual carriage orientation.
Something is fer sure not as it came from Magna American.
Evaporust is not a "cleaner". :D
Apparently, I've used the incorrect nomenclature. The slidey thing on the ways that holds the table. In metal working, it would be the 'tailstock'. In SS vernacular it is the 'carriage'. BTW, I did not say evaporust was a "cleaner". I said I would get some Evaporust - and - "do some cleaning".
"Table" orientation on the "carriage" appears to be the same as what is shown in the owners manual for drill press. I think.
The guide channel for the T-square(I'm likely using the wrong word here too) is on the same side as the speed control, and the table appears to be the same one used for table sawing, with the slot cutout. Or - I could have min-interpreted the picture.
Edit to add: Well, I did find a seller of repl racks for the Mk VII on ebay. Will get those and get Castor new racks for drilling.
JPG
Ya nomenclature varies!
The carriage(the thing that secures the table and tool rest in both the wood and metal genre) appears to be mounted with the controls(hand wheel) on the opposite side than what is "typical". Also the table is reversed from typical table saw orientation.
More details re the carriage and table posts will help clarify just how it got "atypical".
You are aware that you will need 4 pieces that the guy on e-bay makes for a complete rack?
Somewhere I showed how to mount them with extra holes needed and pop rivets.
docmirror
A-yup. I see it now. The traversing wheel on the carriage is on the opposite side from the controls on headstock. When the carriage was put on by the PO, he put it on backwards. Gonna hafta swap that when I put the racks on the ways on Castor. Pollux has the proper orientation of carriage.
Yes, will get 4 track bits for the ways to do both tubes.
Nomenclature; note the 'carriage' on SS would be the 'tailstock' on a metal lathe, and the 'tailstock' on a SS would be a 'steady rest' on a metal lathe. I'm a metal guy in a wood world.
JPG
ooh - I "found" this
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=196725#p196725
P.S. Only the front way tube has the rack.
If you intend to use the 510 table make sure the gear rack will not interfere with the table positioning(carriage again). I do not think it will, but thee may have some atypical needs.
jsburger
docmirror wrote
A-yup. I see it now. The traversing wheel on the carriage is on the opposite side from the controls on headstock. When the carriage was put on by the PO, he put it on backwards. Gonna hafta swap that when I put the racks on the ways on Castor. Pollux has the proper orientation of carriage.
Yes, will get 4 track bits for the ways to do both tubes.
Nomenclature; note the 'carriage' on SS would be the 'tailstock' on a metal lathe, and the 'tailstock' on a SS would be a 'steady rest' on a metal lathe. I'm a metal guy in a wood world.
I am confused. :confused:
The carriage on a metal lathe holds the cutting tools. The carriage on a SS holds the tool rest for the cutting tools in lathe mode. It also holds the table in saw mode.
The tail stock on a metal lathe can hold a drill chuck or a center for support. The tail stock on a SS does the exact same thing. The difference is that the tail stock on a metal lathe slides on the ways and the SS tail stock does not. The carriage in both tools slides on the ways.
Is this not correct?
JPG
I am confused how the 510 table got mounted so it pivots 90° in the reverse direction?
jsburger
JPG wrote
I am confused how the 510 table got mounted so it pivots 90° in the reverse direction?
Rotate the table support tubes 180°???
JPG
That would explain it. I am however dubious.
chapmanruss
docmirror,
Don't worry about the nomenclature. If you spend enough time with us, we will convert you. :D
As you progress with this project you will have to decide which carriage and table system to use. That may affect the use of the racks for adjusting the headstock. The carriage for the 510/505 table system on Castor is not designed to travel over those racks whereas the Mark VII carriage is. Another feature of the Mark VII table system is the extension table is designed to extend directly off the main table giving you a larger work surface. Of course, one of the features of the Mark V 510 table system is expanded table surfaces with the floating tables and the connector tubes. Both table systems can have more than just the main table's surface area to work on.
docmirror
Another day, another Drachma! Or, Sestertius? hehe. Big news is - Pollux spins. Yessiree bob, she's a runner now. I read up on the 10 hour and 25 hour maint service for the Mark V, presuming it applies to my setup and cleaned up things, and lubed the intermediate shaft oil hole, and the motor shaft inside the sheave spring. That lower sheave was pretty sticky on the motor shaft. Now it glides like butter. I tightened the V belt and followed the instructions to mount the sanding disk then manually move the quill while changing the speed dial down to slow setting. Then, after that I left the V belt very loose to give it a chance to spin the motor without loading the quill.
At first, I popped a breaker a couple times, then I decided to plug it direct into the wall outlet and get rid of the 25ft ext cord. Made significant difference in kicking the inrush current to the motor. The quill gradually picked up speed and I let it run for a bit until I heard squealing, and shut it off. I diagnosed the squeal to the vacuum blower shaft. Now, I gotta be honest here - the vac system on the Mark VII is not of the same quality materials and workmanship as the rest of the machine. However, with a few minutes of care and feeding I got it snugged up and it blows, or sucks, or well I guess it does both. Still have to go back and do some work on the plastic bits with JB Weld but it's functional.
After snugging up the V belt with the eccentric, and running it some more - I noticed some bearing noise that wasn't present in Castor. It appears there's some bearing replacement in my future with Pollux. The ways cleaned up a bit, and I greased the headstock traverse system. Strangely, on Pollux the carriage has no traverse wheel adjust. All it has is the pinch lock handle and the carriage slides free on the ways. The carriage setup that is on Pollux is smaller and lighter than the setup on Castor, and the table is also smaller. As Russ notes, the table on Castor is pretty big, and nice. More on that later.
A few bearings, some more cleaning on the ways, and a bit of rust removal and Pollux will be ready for prime time. The quill seems to be in good shape, so my guess is that intermediate shaft will need bearings.
docmirror
Castor has been put into service as a drill press. Meaning - I made holes in metal with it. After fixing some tools to fix a tool so I could fix this tool, I got some quality time with Castor. Did the same 10 hour maint service as on Pollux and it responded well. Got the chuck cleaned up and used a lot of lube to get it running smooth. Put some 800 wet sandpaper on the ways and they cleaned up well. The headstock slides now, and so does the carriage after I repaired the carriage to ways pinch shaft and clamps. It was pretty stuck. Although I have a traverse handle on this carriage, of course I have no rack teeth to engage it, so changes to table height have me holding the center frame of the carriage and loosen the pinch then slide the table, and tighten the pinch handle. Not exactly handy, but it works. I quickly learned the best thing to do is leave the table up high near the chuck, and let it down by gravity enough to get the work piece and drill inserted. Once done, move the table back up near the chuck.
My only minor complaints on Castor are: 1. The front shaft where the vac is supposed to mount is broken off cleanly where the shaft was grooved for the snap ring. Like I said above, the whole vac system was not up to Magna/Shopsmith standards and I can see exactly what happened there. I kinda wanted a vac on Castor, but unless I swap motors to Pollux, it's not going to happen. 2. In vertical mode, with the quill waxed well, and the friction lock fully open with no drag, the quill sags down about an inch. Hmmmm. I also note that while the depth gauge shows 4 inches of travel on the ring, I only get about 3.2 inches of travel. I will take out the quill later and see if this is a design limit or a fault.
I drilled three holes, one of them up to 5/8" dia and wished for lower speed. I can live with 700RPM, but with large bits over 5/16 I'm just going to go plenty slow. I also inventoried the acc bundle and I have no lathe centers. It's strange cuz I have lathe cutters, and the lathe tool rest but no arbor centers, or tailstock floating center. I guess I'll be ordering them with the bearing order for Pollux.
JPG
1) There is NO carriage traverse. Manual push(A variation exists if the MVII carriage is used).
Re the table sizes: The 510(castor) table is 22"(l-r) and 17 1/2" deep. The MVII(pollux) table is 21"(l-r) and 14" deep or 19" deep with the ext table. So the MVII has potentially more surface area. In addition the left side can have "front table extensions" added for about another 6".
The handwheel on both are table traverse in/out in drill press setup.(assuming it is all there)
The quill may have a return spring issue(insufficient tension set) or possibly something worse(busted stuff). Except fer de knobs, the parts are the same as current. Be careful working on the quill shaft. Some unexpected things are there. Most important is to not let the tension spring unwind on it's own. When removing the assembly from the headstock, tie a string on the (tension/lock) end of the shaft to capture the domed washer(if not it will fall down into the bowels of the motor pan).
Keep on trucking!!!
docmirror
1. Aha! That - makes - a - lot - of - sense - now. So, on Pollux, I have this little post that sticks out from the carriage center toward the headstock. It has a kind of penis tapered head on it, and a notch. I let the post stick it's wick into the headstock between ways, and pull out the little red knob on the lower right, e ahora, la mesa es unido a las cabesa! Si - verdad! It all moves as a group. Which means, no need for a carriage traverse. Yes, the round knob move the table in and out, or up and down depending on orientation. When the two are conjoined with the little penis thing guess what - the blade mates proper to the slot in table. Sneaky bastages... :D :D
Sadly, on Castor I do not have that little post/penis thing, but as a drill press it's no big deal. Ebay shopping now for some lathe stuff, and trying to find the right vac hoses. Getting a set of belts for Pollux. I can't figure out from that bearing chart what bearing numbers I need for the intermediate shaft. Sigh,,,
