Shopsmith Forums

Hey guys, it’s been a slow day on the forum. So maybe someone has time to help me figure out how to trim out new flooring to my fireplace hearth.

Some 30 years ago, I laid a flagstone hearth extension in our then-new house. I first stapled chicken wire to the plywood subflooring, to reinforce a mortar bed. Then I fitted, and occasionally trimmed, individual flagstones to the desired hearth outline. Truth be told, I never could figure out how to reliably trim the flagstone with a stone hammer, so it was more a matter of busting a big piece of flagstone and then laying out the fragments on the mortar bed. It turned out pretty well, nevertheless, and the original carpet was forgiving even if the hearth edge wasn’t perfectly straight. And it’s definitely withstood the test of time, with nary a crack in either a stone or mortar joint, despite 30 winters worth of seriously hot fires.

The photo below shows the hearth — not to mention our cat luxuriating in the warmth of the fire. The carpet mostly hides the mortar bed, but it’s definitely under there, with the occasional bit of chicken wire exposed at the edge.


It’s not obvious from the photo, but this is a corner fireplace.

Fast forward 30 years, and the wife is more than ready to rip out the old carpet and put down new flooring. If cost were no object, that would be reclaimed (skip-planed) barnwood flooring. But the budget will probably only allow the much-less-expensive LVT imitation thereof. Either way, I basically have to interface planking that approaches at a 45 degree angle to a somewhat irregular mortar bed.

I know how to scribe contours, so getting a half-decent butt-joint fit isn’t a problem, and I could fill any small gaps with mortar. But I’m not sure that would be a great look.

I could also undercut the mortar bed, and slip the new flooring into that cut. I’m thinking that a diamond blade would make short work of both the chicken wire and the mortar. But I just don’t think it would look much different than a mortar-filled butt joint.

Another option would be to install a scribed hardwood trim board against the hearth extension, and then butt the new floorboards against that trim board. It seems to me that this general approach is likely to give a nicer appearance, but I can’t recall ever seeing it done before. And that raises red flags in my mind.

Any other ideas or advice out there?

I like the trim-board idea- I would also consider a trim stone with a nice edge to match to.

b

The scribed trim board sounds like the best approach to me also. If the trim board was flush or just shy of the top of the flagstone, then shoe mold or quarter round could conceal the joint of the flooring to the flagstone, and give a little room for expansion/contraction.

I've done both slipping the new flooring under the edge of the stone and doing a scribed picture frame trim board around a stone insert.The only times I've ever seen flooring tucked under stone is when the stone is on a wall.

The scribed picture frame is very common here in Minnesota where there is often stone or tile near the entry doors because it holds up to sand and salt in the winter. I would be concerned about the stone flexing and breaking when walked on if it is undercut for the flooring. The trim pieces will also allow you transition more gracefully from the thicker stone to the thinner LVP. I have tucked LVP under a wood trim piece since it can be milled to very fine tolerances and still flex a bit.

I like the undercut approach for its looks and simplicity. But in your case I presume the new flooring is somewhat thinner than existing, so that might leave a wide (-ish) mortar line between floor and hearth. For me, it would depend quite a bit on that width. Ultimately, I'd recognize that I don't have a vote so I'd make a couple of samples starting with the easiest and then do whatever my wife said.

- David

Thanks guys, we seem to have a majority advising the trim-board/frame approach. Although David does make a great point about letting the wife make the final decision!

After making the original post, it dawned on me that a butt joint against the stone wouldn't be workable with natural wood flooring, as it needs room to move. A Google search quickly revealed that LVP also needs between 1/4" and 1/2" to move at its edges, although IIUC it moves with temperature rather than with humidity. The masonry saw made a huge dusty mess in the family room when I cut through the stone veneer and drywall to mount the corbels for the mantel, so I'm not eager to undercut the mortar.

As for how it would look, I realized that we already have a coffee table in the room that has a wood-wrapped stone top. So that should tie right in.
When I had that heart-pine mantel beam resawn, I kept the offcut slabs from the outside of the rough beam, and the inside faces of those offcuts are nice. So I may have enough material to make a frame for the hearth that matches the mantel. I'd rabbet the underside to provide expansion room for the new flooring, of course.

The hearth edge is straight enough that I might not need to scribe the frame. If I space the frame a half inch or so away from the stone, I could then point the gap with mortar, and it would look like a continuation of the motar joints between the flagstones.

For mounting the frame, I like the idea of screwing it to the subflooring, and them plugging the countersunk screw holes with a contrasting wood. I've always liked that look. I could lay the flooring first, trim the edges straight with a track saw, and then install the frame with the rabbet overlapping the flooring. And if we ever need to replace the flooring again, it wouldn't be very hard to remove the frame and do it all over again.

Dennis - Did you make the table? I started a stone topped red oak table a while ago and got side tracked. Wasn't planning to wrap it but that is a nice look. Just curious about the construction if you made it, whether the wood border is bearing the weight of the stone center.

- David

No, that's a store-bought table. It has a welded-steel base that's nice, but the top is poorly designed. There's some sort of sheet material beneath the stone, and then it's wrapped with that solid wood (finger-jointed, actually) frame. The problem is that they didn't leave any room for the frame to expand & contract, so it has a crack or two that open up in winter, when the air is dry.

It looks like you decided to go the way as the builder of our house.

Our 1933 East coast house has a fireplace with tile on the floor in front. The tile is picture-framed by the same oak flooring boards as the rest of my floors. In my case the oak flooring is at the same height as the tile.

Your fireplace sounds lovely, Dave. I’ll always pick a classic, withstood-the-test-of-time design over something that’s merely trendy.

Having lived through the 60’s and 70’s, I well remember the trendy avacodo green, then burnt orange, and then dusty rose decors. Although I might have that sequence out of order. The point is, the trendier it is, the sooner it will be out of style, and the more eager people will be to get rid of it. I’m continually amused by the current/recent trend toward all-white kitchens, because that is exactly the style that seemed outdated from the 40’s and 50’s kitchens when I was a youngster!

To my surprise, I recently saw a stylish new kitchen in one of my wifes home-decor magazines. The cabinet color was — I would never have believed it … drum roll, please … avacodo green!