Should I Install a New Style Idler Or My Old One?

[BigAl]

I just tore down my recently acquired 1982 Mark V. It was squealing at higher speeds. I found a noisy bearing on the drive sleeve and the belts weren't looking too good. The old idler with the water pump bearing seems fine.

Tomorrow I will receive a rebuild kit from the folks who sell the blue bandsaw tires. It comes with all new bearings, belts, and their version of the new idler shaft and split eccentric bushing.

The new way to retain the idler bearings with the split eccentric seems a little iffy to me. Is it proving to be okay? Does anyone have any comments or experiences to share? I'm tempted to put the unit back together with the old idler shaft and the eccentric with the set screw.

Thanks in advance!

[DLB]

IIWM I would not replace the good Idler bearings, so I'd likely use all of the original Idler parts. Those water pump style bearings are excellent. I don't have any objection to the split eccentric, I presume the split allows transfers of clamping force to the inside of the bushing, which seems pretty reasonable. They work fine with either SS style of bearings. I don't love the new SS version Idler bearings. I've only used the new style on PowerPro, but they are certainly more prone to failure than the water pump bearings.

- David

[JPG]

+1

[chapmanruss]

Big Al,

I think this is a case of "If it isn't broke, don't fix it" so I agree with David and JPG. Maybe put the Idler replacement parts away for now. The Idler Bearing can go bad, but it seems to be the less common one to do so.

[BigAl]

Thanks for the replies!

I got the rebuild kit today and reassembled the headstock. I replaced the drive sleeve bearings and both belts. I had already replaced the quill bearing. As suggested, I re-used the old water pump bearing idler and eccentric sleeve. Everything fit okay. I was able to pull the old bearings off the drive sleeve and install the new ones without needing any special pullers. I just used a dead blow hammer and various large deep well sockets or pieces of pipe to apply force to either the inner or outer bearing races appropriately.

I decided not to replace the button and bearing on the end of the control sheave . . . but I did grease the bearing. After cleaning the part, I put a nice dollop of high temperature grease inside the tubular part of the outer half of the sheave. I then inserted the idler shaft into the sheave like a piston and pushed a bunch of grease through the bearing . . . more than enough to purge whatever was in there and fill the bearing. After I cleaned up the excess grease inside and outside, I directed a puff of compressed air into the tubular part of the outer sheave and some more grease came out around the bearing shield. I'm not sure if the bearing is over-greased . . . but at least it's not totally full.

I saved the extra parts from the rebuild kit. I hope I won't need them for a long time.

The kit seemed like reasonable quality stuff. The bearings were from China, but there are some pretty good bearings made there. I hope they sent me good ones. The new Idler shaft looked good, although the bearings did look kind of wimpy. I suppose that Shopsmith uses the same size in the ones they make. I wonder why they didn't use four bearings on the shaft instead of two? The V-Belt provided was raw-edged instead of the wrapped version that I removed.

The trickiest part for me was getting the speed control dial coordinated with the actual speed. After a couple of tries, I decided to set it up so the slowest indication corresponded with the belt riding just even with the outer edge of the control sheave. It seems to be alright that way. The headstock isn't exactly quiet now. There's plenty of whirring now and some minor rattling, but at least there isn't any more screeching going on.

Now that the Mark V and the add-on machines I bought are all repaired and updated, I think it's time to make some sawdust.

[ACE]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forums, and still finding my way around, but I'm working on restoring my grandfather's 'Greenie'.

I believe I have some bearings to replace, but right now I'm focused just on the large bearing located on the Idler shaft (not the small inserted bearing on the speed control side). I have a water pump style, but the bearing has clearly failed - very gummy.

After reading a lot and viewing a lot, I'm wondering about the viability of the new idler shafts Shopsmith is offering. They seem...fragile.

I'm interested in opinions on purchasing an actual water pump bearing, bringing it to a machine shop, and asking if they could modify it to match my existing part? Would this perhaps be a more durable replacement? Note: I have the eccentric bearing with the screw on the end, so I don't need to worry about having a groove down the center of the idler shaft bearing.

Thank you!

[edma194]

There's nothing wrong with the new idler bearings. I haven't heard of a failure of one except in my own case where the idler had been improperly installed in a PowerPro head. If you really want to stick with a water pump bearing you could certainly acquire one, I've linked to a source in other threads, I'll try to find it for you. It will need to be modified, the shaft may need to be cut off on either end and it will need to be slotted for a key to connect the pulley. Maybe you could find one on eBay for a reasonable price.

ETA: The link to a water pump bearing I had posted previously was going to eBay and that part is no longer available. I have seen them listed from other bearing suppliers, there should be a variety of options. The shaft ODs have to be 5/8", the shaft lengths at least as long as what you have already. and The bearing OD and length have to match your current one also. Since the new style shaft and bearing assembly only costs $44.00 that may be the best approach.

[chapmanruss]

ACE,

Welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

The replacement Idler Shaft with Bearings Ed referred to is part number 522741 and reference # 105 in the conventional Headstock Parts list. There is a Service Notice about replacing the Idler Shaft with the new bearings at the link below.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... r_note.htm

Since you are restoring a Mark 5 Greenie which would be from the 1950's there has been some changes up to now. Depending on when your Greenie was made some of the first changes to the Mark 5 involved how the Idler Shaft and Bearing was held in the eccentric and the Headstock casting. The above Service Notice applies to later Mark V's and the eccentric on your Mark 5 may be different than those shown in the Service Notice. The first eccentric used in the Mak 5 headstock was a split type like the one shown as the new type in the Service Notice except it did not have a retaining screw. Soon that was changed to an eccentric with the set screw like the one shown as the old type in the Service Notice. They also used a Bearing Retainer to hold the Idler Bearing and Eccentric in the Headstock casting. Pictures and the serial number of your Mark 5 Greenie will help us identify when yours was made and what parts may be needed. Lastly do you have a Manual for your Greenie?

[ACE]

Thanks for those responses. I'm actually starting to wonder if there's anything wrong with my bearings in the first place. I'm not sure how freely fully functional bearings should spin. The one on the end of the idler shaft sure spins fast, but the large bearing on the shaft itself, while definitely slower, doesn't make any strange noises or give any kind of interrupted spin. Not sure.

I won't be able to post pictures until this weekend, but the issue I'm having is actually unclear to me. Here's my story:

Disclaimer: some of this will hurt to read

About a year ago, when I was young lad and didn't know anything, I tried switching on the headstock only to hear an ominous hum. I took the motor out (an AO Smith 3/4hp), took it apart, blew out a lot of dust, and put it back together. Switched it on and it worked!...until I started to see intermittent sparks coming from the centrifugal switch. Off. I made another attempt to center it. On. It runs, and no sparks! I install it, attach the belt, and flip the switch. It moves the belt slightly and then stalls and hums. I try (you're gonna be mad) changing the speed control several times both with the motor on and off. No change. Try to help it along by attaching and turning the sanding disc by hand. No change. Try leaving it on to see if it has to build up strength or something. (shaking my head)

...then I smell smoke...(bet you saw that coming)

Take the motor back out, and try to run it. I start to SEE smoke...I buy another AO Smith 3/4hp motor for $100 on eBay.

Switch it on and it runs no problem. Install it, switch it on, same problem. This time I'm afraid (starting to learn?) so I switch it off, use a few choice words, and walk away.

And that's the end of the painful part.

I am still young and don't know anything.

I decided to try and learn something. I learned A LOT. Found my way to Jacob Anderson's videos, a million other resources, and finally this forum.

Ladies and gentleman, I am finally ready to listen to the voice of experience. I don't know what I don't know, and I want to honor my grandfather by bringing this back to life and caring for it. I also want to do a lot of woodworking! I can't do any of that until I start listening to people who know more than me - that's basically everybody here.

Thinking I had a bearing problem, I started to follow along with Jacob A's teardown videos. I've gotten as far as removing the idler shaft.

As I said, pictures to come this weekend. Please be gentle.

[beeg]

Did you clean out the rest of the headstock? How about lube it up where should be? To me if a bearing spins fast with a finger flip, it's bad,