Make or Buy?

This is a forum for intermediate to advanced woodworkers. Show off your projects or share your ideas.

Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin

User avatar
SteveMaryland
Gold Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:41 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by SteveMaryland »

Thank you Mr. Bodner for that referral. I have not heard of Smoots, and will try to get down there or at least look them up online.

My experiences with lumberyards is poor. Locally I have dealt with Reisterstown Lumber, National Lumber, and T. W. Perry. Mostly clueless and unknowledgable personnel. Today lumberyards cater to builders and not the woodworker - because builders are most all of their business. I wind up going to the big box anyway. That Texas outfit sounds like they speak to my needs - but they're in Texas. I wish I could find a yard around here, so maybe Smoots is it.
Mark V, Model 555510, Serial No. 102689, purchased November 1989. Upgraded to 520
User avatar
SteveMaryland
Gold Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:41 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by SteveMaryland »

Update. I decided to mill the beadboard and buy the floorboard. The floorboard is pressure treated which is a must-have so I'll buy it.

Just finished milling the beadboard. 36 pieces of 1 x 8 x 8ft select turned into 72 pieces of T&G porch ceiling. $32 per board. Ouch. But it was nice material and ran through with minimum bend/bow/twist.

I plan to put rock glass bat insulation on top of this ceiling. The 3/4" board thickness should bear the insulation weight without any bowing.

Next steps, some light sanding, stain and varnish. Shall I varnish each piece seperately before installation?

For the beadboard I used a Woodline #7541 profile cutter. I don't expect to be making any more beadboard; if anyone wants to buy it, PM me.
Attachments
IMG_2364-2.JPG
IMG_2364-2.JPG (47.67 KiB) Viewed 3440 times
IMG_2346-2.JPG
IMG_2346-2.JPG (69.09 KiB) Viewed 3440 times
IMG_2341-2.JPG
IMG_2341-2.JPG (68.44 KiB) Viewed 3440 times
IMG_2362-2.JPG
IMG_2362-2.JPG (66.1 KiB) Viewed 3440 times
IMG_2363-2.JPG
IMG_2363-2.JPG (52.28 KiB) Viewed 3440 times
Mark V, Model 555510, Serial No. 102689, purchased November 1989. Upgraded to 520
Hobbyman2
Platinum Member
Posts: 2660
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:52 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by Hobbyman2 »

Nice !!
Hobbyman2 Favorite Quote: "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)
User avatar
SteveMaryland
Gold Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:41 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by SteveMaryland »

Update on this thread. Finally got the new ceiling up. Porch is still a work in progress but I thought I would post ceiling photos and lessons I learned re T&G beadboard ceiling installation.

Old house with old porch ceiling joists. I started this job thinking that shimming the joists "as required" would be sufficient to get a flat mounting surface. Forget that. I finally screwed 2x4 to all the joists and then scribed laser level dots to define "flat" on all of them, then took them all down and bandsawed to the scribe. Then re-screwed them back up. Then I had a good flat mounting surface.

I learned the hard way about the difference between "flat" and "level". All planes are flat but not all planes are level. Water surface is flat AND level. But I could not use a water level on my joists because they are just too far out. Ceiling had to be flat but not necessarily level. A water level will only provide level, but a laser will always define flat, with flat + level optional. Glad I used the laser.

I also thought that by cutting all my tongues and grooves very carefully, then 8-foot long T&G boards would fit nice together at install. Nope. Even with the most precise and consistent cutting, the slightest warpage will screw up T&G fits. From this I learned that the max practical length for a T&G board is 4 feet. Also I did additional planing and scraping on all the tongues and grooves, and also waxed them - and even this did not help much. Any warpage screws up the fit. Shorter boards are a must. Making the T&G dimensions sloppier is not the solution.

I used a spreadsheet to plan my cuts and estimate my material requirements. That worked out very well in the end, but my novice error was to assume that the ceiling joists were all going to be 16" on center - which they were not, as I discovered AFTER I had prepped all the new T&G and THEN tore down the old ceiling. Luckily I had just enough material but when joists are way off of 16", this completely screws up the cut length and waste estimates.

I mounted the boards using the classic hidden-fastener toenail into the tongue, but I used screws not nails. This was a good choice. See pictures. I used "trim head screws". These have a finish-nail profile but they screw in. They have a small star-drive head. I pre-drilled for each of them to avoid split wood. These screws worked great. They gave me the option to back off the screw to get a better fit with the abutting board. Even with all the careful millwork + laser-levelling, board-to-board butt joint matchup was a challenge, and these screws gave me some adjustability.

I pre-varnished all boards before install. Used analine dye to bring out the grain, then 3 coats of Helmsman. Varnished and dried on an indoor rack. 2 coats wet-sanded and the third coat was laid thick and no sanding. Very good result I think.

Could not have done any of this without Shopsmith. Next job is replace porch deck - with more T&G.
Attachments
Beadboard indoor drying rack
Beadboard indoor drying rack
IMG_2371.JPG (365.28 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Old ceiling teardown - a mess
Old ceiling teardown - a mess
IMG_2381-2.JPG (344.35 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Planing and scraping T&G for better fit
Planing and scraping T&G for better fit
IMG_2468.JPG (79.03 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Screws instead of nails
Screws instead of nails
IMG_2475-2.JPG (275.99 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Screws instead of nails (2)
Screws instead of nails (2)
IMG_2480-2.JPG (186.11 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Screws helped to adjust board-to-board fit
Screws helped to adjust board-to-board fit
IMG_2484-2.JPG (226.94 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Predrilled the tongue to accommodate the screws
Predrilled the tongue to accommodate the screws
IMG_2489-2.JPG (252.61 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Biting off the tongue to fix a misalignment
Biting off the tongue to fix a misalignment
IMG_2490-2.JPG (204.11 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Finished and glorious
Finished and glorious
IMG_2493-2.JPG (223.11 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Finished and glorious - varnished BEFORE install
Finished and glorious - varnished BEFORE install
IMG_2495-2.JPG (242.21 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Mark V, Model 555510, Serial No. 102689, purchased November 1989. Upgraded to 520
rogersk
Gold Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:17 pm

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by rogersk »

Looks fantastic! Great job on the color and the finish too.

-Keith
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by RFGuy »

SteveMaryland wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:05 am I also thought that by cutting all my tongues and grooves very carefully, then 8-foot long T&G boards would fit nice together at install. Nope. Even with the most precise and consistent cutting, the slightest warpage will screw up T&G fits. From this I learned that the max practical length for a T&G board is 4 feet. Also I did additional planing and scraping on all the tongues and grooves, and also waxed them - and even this did not help much. Any warpage screws up the fit. Shorter boards are a must. Making the T&G dimensions sloppier is not the solution.
Steve,

First of all, it looks really good and I know that was A LOT of work! Kudos. We don't have porches here in the desert, but we do have covered "patios" on the back of the house which is essentially the same thing. I have a narrow, but long (40') patio that I want to do this to. I really want to run the beadboard lengthwise but I kept thinking this wouldn't be practical to keep a straight sightline down the 40' length (both with installation variation and warpage). I think your post confirms for me that I have to run it on the short dimension. I have done quite a bit of 3/4" solid wood flooring in the past, so I know well some of the challenges you describe here. For shipping purposes most wood flooring comes in a max of 6' lengths. Even with very good quality kiln dried lumber, machined well at a factory, these can still be a bear to line up sometimes with the little bit of warpage you get on-site, especially on those longer 6' boards. Having to deal with this, all overhead, had to be quite a workout and challenge. I am used to nailing T&G with flooring, but now you have me thinking for mine when I do it. Being overhead, screws would probably last the longest, i.e. nailing T&G ceiling might cause movement with temp & humidity down the road. Wondering if you had much splitting with screws on this? Also, what brand & color dye did you use?
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
User avatar
MikeG
Gold Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:08 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by MikeG »

WOW!!!
Love the finished look. Great job!
User avatar
SteveMaryland
Gold Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:41 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by SteveMaryland »

"Wondering if you had much splitting with screws on this? Also, what brand & color dye did you use?"

The dye was a mix of Transfast and Moser's, analine powder, water soluble. Orange + Golden Oak colors.

I had no wood splits with the screws because I pre-drilled. More up-and-down on the ladder but very worth it.

The screws also completely eliminate damaging the finish by hammer.
Mark V, Model 555510, Serial No. 102689, purchased November 1989. Upgraded to 520
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by RFGuy »

SteveMaryland wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:43 pm The dye was a mix of Transfast and Moser's, analine powder, water soluble. Orange + Golden Oak colors.

I had no wood splits with the screws because I pre-drilled. More up-and-down on the ladder but very worth it.

The screws also completely eliminate damaging the finish by hammer.
Steve,

Thanks. I appreciate it and you did a very good job on that ceiling.

Well, you wouldn't want to use a hammer to install all of that, right? I would use a nail gun with the appropriate size finish nail in it. Properly adjusted you wouldn't even need to use a punch to finish sinking the nails to depth. Much faster.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
User avatar
SteveMaryland
Gold Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:41 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Make or Buy?

Post by SteveMaryland »

For overhead work I myself wouldn't use a nailgun. First, because I would need to put that nail right exactly at the root of the tongue every time, and my aim is not that good. Second, I do have an air nailer and for overhead work it would get heavy. Especially dragging an air hose along while up on a ladder. Third, once the nail is in that's it - no adjustment possible. With a predrilled screw I know right where it will go and I can back it off if needed (which I often did during this job, to fine-tune the board fit). I used a little lightweight battery-powered screwgun for the whole job and it did great.

I think if I had had a perfect flat mounting surface maybe nailing would have worked, but the surface I had posed problems, even after laser leveling, and I still had to shim in places. The adjustability of the screws came in very handy for me.

For well-prepared floor work yes I might use an air nailer.
Mark V, Model 555510, Serial No. 102689, purchased November 1989. Upgraded to 520
Post Reply