Issue with new 10er belts
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Issue with new 10er belts
Hello -- I am fairly new to this forum with a recent 10er purchase serial #69781 (So December 1952). I bought the 10ER Speed Changer Belt set from mkctools and kept my old ones. I read through the manual as well as watched Skip's excellent online tutorial, as I was unable to find a video of someone changing a 10er's belts.
https://groups.io/g/shopsmith10er/files ... ual-53.pdf
https://www.mkctools.com/speed%20changer%20setup.htm
I was using the drill press so I arranged the belts for high range speed:
I put the shorter AL220 belt on the headstock's smallest pulley step (2") and the longer AL250 belt on the largest motor pulley step (6"?), trying to keep the tension equalization springs even. However this arrangement left the belts surprisingly slack. To get 1/4" pinch tension in each belt I had to pull back the engine to the point where it's almost falling off, and the speed changer's indicator read below 0 -- but I'm not sure where I went wrong. I have supplied pictures to help pinpoint my error.
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
Scott
https://groups.io/g/shopsmith10er/files ... ual-53.pdf
https://www.mkctools.com/speed%20changer%20setup.htm
I was using the drill press so I arranged the belts for high range speed:
I put the shorter AL220 belt on the headstock's smallest pulley step (2") and the longer AL250 belt on the largest motor pulley step (6"?), trying to keep the tension equalization springs even. However this arrangement left the belts surprisingly slack. To get 1/4" pinch tension in each belt I had to pull back the engine to the point where it's almost falling off, and the speed changer's indicator read below 0 -- but I'm not sure where I went wrong. I have supplied pictures to help pinpoint my error.
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
Scott
Last edited by Seezle on Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
=================
Scott E.
Scott E.
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
It looks like the two fixed sheaves on the speed changer may be too far apart, When the one belt is at its lowest, the other should be up at the top. The springs on the crank are there to avoid strain on the "ears" so they don't break.
Ron Dyck
==================================================================
10ER #23430, 10ER #84609, 10ER #94987,two SS A-34 jigsaws for 10ER.
1959 Mark 5 #356595 Greenie, SS Magna Jointer, SS planer, SS bandsaw, SS scroll saw (gray), DC3300,
==================================================================
10ER #23430, 10ER #84609, 10ER #94987,two SS A-34 jigsaws for 10ER.
1959 Mark 5 #356595 Greenie, SS Magna Jointer, SS planer, SS bandsaw, SS scroll saw (gray), DC3300,
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
I have to agree. Revisit this part of the instructions:
“Next, the fixed sheaves should be set for the belts being used. All 1/2" 4L type belts are not the same width and/or height and in order to get the best performance from the speed changer the fixed sheaves need to be adjusted properly. As seen in the photos below, set one fixed sheave even with the end of the steel hub and tighten the set screw firmly. Set the other fixed sheave in from the end of the steel hub about 1/8" and lightly tighten the set screw. Using one belt only, slide the floating sheave to one side and press the belt down into the groove. Hold the belt straight (or as I do, turn the belt inside out) so you can see though between the bottom of the belt and the bottom of the groove. You want the belt to go as far down into the groove as possible to get full speed range from the changer BUT, you do not want it to bottom out on the base of the floating sheave. This will cause belt slipping and can cause the floating sheave to spin on the center hub causing undue wear to the assembly. I like to have close to but not less than 1/16" clearance under the belt. Gradually move this fixed sheave out until you get the desired clearance. I recommend checking this annually to make sure belt stretching or belt and pulley wear have not allowed the belt to bottom out.”
“Next, the fixed sheaves should be set for the belts being used. All 1/2" 4L type belts are not the same width and/or height and in order to get the best performance from the speed changer the fixed sheaves need to be adjusted properly. As seen in the photos below, set one fixed sheave even with the end of the steel hub and tighten the set screw firmly. Set the other fixed sheave in from the end of the steel hub about 1/8" and lightly tighten the set screw. Using one belt only, slide the floating sheave to one side and press the belt down into the groove. Hold the belt straight (or as I do, turn the belt inside out) so you can see though between the bottom of the belt and the bottom of the groove. You want the belt to go as far down into the groove as possible to get full speed range from the changer BUT, you do not want it to bottom out on the base of the floating sheave. This will cause belt slipping and can cause the floating sheave to spin on the center hub causing undue wear to the assembly. I like to have close to but not less than 1/16" clearance under the belt. Gradually move this fixed sheave out until you get the desired clearance. I recommend checking this annually to make sure belt stretching or belt and pulley wear have not allowed the belt to bottom out.”
- chapmanruss
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3449
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 pm
- Location: near Portland, Oregon
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
As Ron and Darren have said the Speed Changer Pulley is not adjusted correctly. The belts Skip supplies are very good belts and not the problem. Right now the Speed Changer is simply transmitting the motor pulley speed to the headstock pulley since both belts are "bottomed out" on the Speed Changer's Pulley. Turning the crank is only risking breaking the assembly. I would recommend removing the belts and take the Speed Changer Pulley off to adjust it and likely maintenance. Without the belts in place simply unscrew the knob on the end of the shaft and slide the pulley assembly off. Now is a good time to check for any needed maintenance. Clean the assembly if necessary. Lubricate if needed so the floating sheave slides freely back and forth between the fixed ends. I like to adjust the fixed ends of the pulley assembly while it is off the rest of the Speed Changer assembly. One belt should almost touch the bottom of the pulley while the other belt is held at the outer edge of the pulley. The ends of the sleeve the pulley sheaves attach to should protrude near evenly on both sides. The picture below shows a Speed Changer mounted on a Model 10ER and note the belt is low on one side of the pulley assembly while the other belt is at the top.
_ .
Below is a PDF of the manual for the Speed Changer.
_ .
When putting the pulley assembly back on use some lubrication on the shaft. Lightweight oil like 3 in 1, sewing machine oil or Zoom Spout Oiler works well.
Another adjustment to make is the lock nut on the end of the Screw Assembly. It should be tightened only to the point that the parts touch but not compressing either spring.
A word of caution when using the Speed Changer. NEVER turn the crank past the point the springs begin to compress. The speed will not go any higher or lower but you risk breaking the casting.
_ .
Below is a PDF of the manual for the Speed Changer.
_ .
When putting the pulley assembly back on use some lubrication on the shaft. Lightweight oil like 3 in 1, sewing machine oil or Zoom Spout Oiler works well.
Another adjustment to make is the lock nut on the end of the Screw Assembly. It should be tightened only to the point that the parts touch but not compressing either spring.
A word of caution when using the Speed Changer. NEVER turn the crank past the point the springs begin to compress. The speed will not go any higher or lower but you risk breaking the casting.
Russ
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
Thank you all for the replies. Let me see if I understand this correctly, as I am much more a visual learner.
"Bottoming out" is if either pulley is directly contacting the spindle of the speed changer and is unwanted - it can cause slippage, uneven wear and does not provide any transform of the motor's speed. The desired placement of both pulleys is to be at different heights from the spindle center, caused by strictly delineating the space for each pulley between the floating and fixed sheaves. Bringing the fixed sheaves closer provides this delineation of differing heights, whereas generous spacing between the fixed sheaves allows bottoming out.
I've provided a simplified orthographic illustration of the speed changer spindle and sheaves to demonstrate this - is it accurate (at least in concept)?
"Bottoming out" is if either pulley is directly contacting the spindle of the speed changer and is unwanted - it can cause slippage, uneven wear and does not provide any transform of the motor's speed. The desired placement of both pulleys is to be at different heights from the spindle center, caused by strictly delineating the space for each pulley between the floating and fixed sheaves. Bringing the fixed sheaves closer provides this delineation of differing heights, whereas generous spacing between the fixed sheaves allows bottoming out.
I've provided a simplified orthographic illustration of the speed changer spindle and sheaves to demonstrate this - is it accurate (at least in concept)?
=================
Scott E.
Scott E.
- chapmanruss
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3449
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 pm
- Location: near Portland, Oregon
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
Scott,
I believe you understand the concept. Your drawing shows about where your belts are in the picture in your first post. In the diagram below, from a Speed Changer Manual, it shows the belt positions for both the low and high ranges. Notice that the belts are near the end of the speed range on the Speed Changer pulley. This is near where you want to get to. Adjust the outer fixed sheaves inward toward the floating sheave to have one belt almost touching the inner sleeve while the other belt is flush with the outer edge of the pulley assembly as I indicated before. Once the pulley is adjusted properly the speed indicator, shown in the fourth picture from you first post, can be set. With the speed at the lowest for the range of either low or high, loosen the two screws on the 0 to 5 indicator and align the 0 with the arrow. This will then give you the approximate speeds shown on the chart. With a properly adjusted pulley the speeds should be quite close.
Remember, NEVER try to turn the speed adjustment crank past the point the springs begin to compress to avoid damaging or breaking the castings.
_
I believe you understand the concept. Your drawing shows about where your belts are in the picture in your first post. In the diagram below, from a Speed Changer Manual, it shows the belt positions for both the low and high ranges. Notice that the belts are near the end of the speed range on the Speed Changer pulley. This is near where you want to get to. Adjust the outer fixed sheaves inward toward the floating sheave to have one belt almost touching the inner sleeve while the other belt is flush with the outer edge of the pulley assembly as I indicated before. Once the pulley is adjusted properly the speed indicator, shown in the fourth picture from you first post, can be set. With the speed at the lowest for the range of either low or high, loosen the two screws on the 0 to 5 indicator and align the 0 with the arrow. This will then give you the approximate speeds shown on the chart. With a properly adjusted pulley the speeds should be quite close.
Remember, NEVER try to turn the speed adjustment crank past the point the springs begin to compress to avoid damaging or breaking the castings.
_
Russ
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
- JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34610
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
Do realize that the motor mount has an effect on the possible location of the belts on the pulleys.I would be reluctant to alter the middle sheave range of motion.(outer sheave spacing)
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
Unless they have been moved for some reason by a PO. The Speed changer manual says the outer sheaves should be 2" apart and to adjust them if they are not.
NOTE: There are two versions of the Speed Changer manual. One has the 2" dimension in it and the other one does not.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
- JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34610
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
At what 'point' on the outer sheaves is that 2" determined?
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
- chapmanruss
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3449
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 pm
- Location: near Portland, Oregon
Re: Issue with new 10er belts
John said,
131-21-1149 is a single page instruction manual and likely the first one.
131-21-450 is a two page instructions with the front being the same as the first one above and the back having a parts diagram and parts list.
131-21-0351 and 131-21-0551 appear to be the same with instructions on the front and additional instructions, diagrams and parts list on the back.
The PDF instructions I posted in my previous post is 9005 JAN 53. I don't have an original printed copy of this manual and Trouble Shooting Guide. The front page is very similar to the 0351 and 0551 front pages but the second page is different including having the 11-51 part number change. This Instruction manual is the only one I have seen that shows the Adjusting Screw Assembly mounted away from the Headstock as seen in the picture on the first page. The third page in that PDF is the Trouble Shooting Guide and is the only reference I have to the 2" measurement. It states
I have the following 4 original printed Speed Changer manuals.NOTE: There are two versions of the Speed Changer manual. One has the 2" dimension in it and the other one does not.
131-21-1149 is a single page instruction manual and likely the first one.
131-21-450 is a two page instructions with the front being the same as the first one above and the back having a parts diagram and parts list.
131-21-0351 and 131-21-0551 appear to be the same with instructions on the front and additional instructions, diagrams and parts list on the back.
The PDF instructions I posted in my previous post is 9005 JAN 53. I don't have an original printed copy of this manual and Trouble Shooting Guide. The front page is very similar to the 0351 and 0551 front pages but the second page is different including having the 11-51 part number change. This Instruction manual is the only one I have seen that shows the Adjusting Screw Assembly mounted away from the Headstock as seen in the picture on the first page. The third page in that PDF is the Trouble Shooting Guide and is the only reference I have to the 2" measurement. It states
There should be additional manuals for the Speed Changer since the part numbers changed in November 1951 and the Trouble Shooting guide makes this referenceCheck the distance between outside pulley sheaves of Speed Changer. The distance should not exceed two inches. If it does, loosen set screws on pulley sheaves and reset at two inches.
It should be noted that even though there are several Instruction manuals for the Speed Changer there was very little change made to the Speed Changer itself. Two come to mind. The most visible one was the change to the speed scale first having 0 to 8 and later 0 to 5. Only 0 to 5 was ever used on the scale so the early ones having 6, 7 & 8 was confusing. The other change was the floating sheave which soon added the extended sleeve on it that slides back and forth on the main sleeve of the pulley assembly.Occasionally clean and lubricate the Speed Changer in accordance with instruction sheet #9005 July 52.
Russ
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.